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View Diary: I sucked at Buddhism last night (257 comments)

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  •  Renouncing privilege requires privilege (2+ / 0-)
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    enhydra lutris, marina

    in the first place. And really, I don't know any buddhists that have denounced privilege. Sure, some live a little more simply, but really without abandoning you regular life and family you aren't renouncing privilege.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 05:39:22 PM PDT

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    •  But I suppose (0+ / 0-)

      this is equally true of every religion, and in fact all people.  This has to be the first time I've heard someone refer to having a family as being privileged.  It is a quite novel definition.

      However, you evidently have never met any monks or nuns or any other such teachers.  I wonder how many buddhists you have in fact met?

      Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

      by Mindful Nature on Thu May 02, 2013 at 06:56:25 PM PDT

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      •  I've met many buddhists (0+ / 0-)

        I live in the bay area, I know more Buddhists than I do Christians. And the Buddha gave up his position including leaving his family. As have millions of monks and nuns throughout the history of the religion. And I didn't define privilege as having a family but you'd certainly agree that one's family is where a lot of one's privilege comes from, would you not?

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 07:55:18 PM PDT

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        •  that doesn't really get at it (1+ / 0-)
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          AoT

          privilege comes from all kinds of places, including family, culture, economics, institutions and so forth.  That is all true, but it still doesn't explain this odd assertion that buddhism comes from a privileged place.  It seems that engaging in an honest practice to cultivate compassion isn't particularly a privileged notion.  Doesn't make sense to me.

          Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

          by Mindful Nature on Thu May 02, 2013 at 08:57:00 PM PDT

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          •  It was created by a prince (0+ / 0-)

            And spread by merchants. It's hard to think of a religion other than Confucianism that involved more privilege in it's creation. A rich prince denounces his lifestyle because he saw how poor people lived. Don't get me wrong, that's an impressive thing, but it comes from a place of privilege necessarily. And the specific privilege is based on the family. You literally can't renounce being a prince without renouncing being in your family. Being a prince means you hold a specific place in a specific family.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:09:30 PM PDT

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            •  ok (1+ / 0-)
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              AoT

              I don't think that makes a lot of sense, but whatever.  I'd say that since Islam was spready largely by emperors and the catholic church is one of the richest and most powerful institutions in human history, there are perhaps some contenders.  After all, Muhammed was a merchant also, and Jesus a member of a royal house, apparently.

              Still, I'm not sure that any of this is super relevant.

              Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

              by Mindful Nature on Thu May 02, 2013 at 09:23:42 PM PDT

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              •  Well, we were talking about the creation (0+ / 0-)

                of the religion and being based on renunciation of privilege and I noted that it necessarily will come from a place of privilege if that's the case. This historical minutia isn't especially important to the point. Buddhism was started by a prince, it comes from a place of privilege and part of that is family. Renouncing privilege means renouncing family, as it meant with the Buddha.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Fri May 03, 2013 at 10:33:32 AM PDT

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                •  You don't have to be a monk to achieve (0+ / 0-)

                  Nirvana, although the Buddha obviously felt that it helped.  If you're not a monk, you don't have to renounce your family; you just have to follow the precepts for laypeople (something many would-be teachers these days cannot or will not do, fwiw).

                  Buddhism was founded by an ex-prince who had discarded princely privilege, and its popularity at first depended only on his persuasiveness and that of his followers, and only later on wealthy patronage.  I've never heard of the latter having had any connection to the Buddha's former princehood.  Is there a source saying otherwise?

                  "Happiness is the only good. The place to be happy is here. The time to be happy is now. The way to be happy is to make others so." - Robert Ingersoll

                  by dackmont on Fri May 03, 2013 at 06:28:48 PM PDT

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