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View Diary: Private enterprise shackled by Obamunism, aka Dow hits 15,000 for first time (153 comments)

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  •  And the amount of people leaving the work force (7+ / 0-)

    rises yet again.

    But, hey! The Dow is over 15,000!!

    The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln

    by raboof on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:23:00 AM PDT

    •  Proving once again that the Dow (13+ / 0-)

      has nothing to do with real life.
      It's the Great Casino fantasy where there are no clocks.
      The Little People don't belong in The Casino. We're good only for fleecing.
      Let Richie Rich play with Robbie Rich's dough, not ours. Let it be a rich kids circle jerk.

      "Oh those show business kids makin movies of themselves,
      you know they don't give a fuck about anybody else."
      ~Steely Dan

      "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes

      Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

      by OleHippieChick on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:27:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, for retirees it can be a big deal. (9+ / 0-)

        We chose an early variable pay payout for one of my husband's pensions indexed to the stock market and it was $1200/m for most of the last year, then $1300/m, then $1400/m, and yesterday the check that came was $1675.

        •  cool (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kck

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:42:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Wonderful! For yourself and some retirees. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kck

          A lot of us don't have pensions and will never be able to really retire.

          "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes

          Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

          by OleHippieChick on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:46:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the younger generation doesn't need this (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kck

            bad advice.  

            they can have a retirement.  anybody who has income can save for retirement.  we all should be.

            if your company provides 401k benefits and even matches some, then you would be passing up free money.  

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:05:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  We're part of the same club. I'm "retired," (4+ / 0-)

            but when an old customer calls (and I'm running out of them as my old clientele fades away, moves, gets too old, etc.) I go to work (I'm still a licensed contractor). I want to keep my house and pay the bills.  My wife doesn't want me to work too hard anymore, but to that end I stay in shape, exercise, eat well, and try to think positive. Besides, I want to do a lot more hiking over those CA hills to see those wildflowers in spring.

            My wife wouldn't like me saying this, but I can see myself working into my eighties and beyond, if I'm able, and I plan to be able as long as possible. I know so many people like me now.

            I've thought that "us seniors" ought to form an enormous
            union of some sort to pool our talents and resources.

            "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

            by Wildthumb on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:07:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  For me having a pension was a major factor... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cali Scribe, OleHippieChick

            ...along with other retirement saving instruments in choosing jobs and job moves. Some people simply lost that option, most all have today, as well as some suffered from downsizing, loss of benefits and union contracts and some people had other priorities like income, not relocating, freedom, a bunch of kids, etc. The macro realities of insufficient retirement funds will hit the whole country soon enough.

            The point here is that the stock market goes up and it goes down and is not a direct indicator of the economy for everyone but it does impact retirees. More often than not higher stock activity is related to reductions in jobs - bad for some workers, albeit financially better for funded retirees.

            I neither credit nor blame Presidents for stock market fluctuations. Crashes are an exception and the Great Recession is on Bush.  The federal gov't should be creating a new financial infrastructure necessary for jobs, equity and decent livelihoods for everyone of all ages but for a variety of reasons  responsible governance s an unreasonable expectation.

      •  If you're rich enough to play in that Great Casino (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OleHippieChick, FiredUpInCA

        then the Dow does make a difference in your life.

        In a perfect world, we'd all be rich enough.

        We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

        by david78209 on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:37:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you don't have to be rich (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pamelabrown, Remove Kebab, david78209

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:42:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Of course, but the majority of us are not. (3+ / 0-)

          The world is far from perfect. The Dow interests only the select few who can afford to be interested, as you say. But the aim always is to suck in wave after wave of small investors in order to perform the occasional shakedown.

          "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes

          Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

          by OleHippieChick on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:44:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  A lot of us are investors whether we know it ... (4+ / 0-)

          ... or not. The market has much to do with "real life."

          If we are fortunate enough to have pension funds or 401k's  (I grant you, this is only a part of employed America, but it is a part) or savings keyed to market rates, we are beneficiaries of a good and rising market. I don't resent my neighbor who is doing well in "the market."

          And importantly, it's not just the 1%. Business and trade determines the strength of the American economy. Rail as some of us do at "corporatists," those who go to the market for money to put into business (or measure their business incentives by their market price, which is almost every business!), "their" market is our market.

          So Yes, I'd like the market strong and getting stronger.

          And Yes, I'd like a Secretary of Commerce who benefits from the market and business health, too, even if she is quite well-to-do and doesn't look like you or me.

          I think Jed's point is that an Obama administration is not the scourge of business, at least as measured by what business thinks is the most key determinant of its success. That's good news!

          We know there are other indicators of economic health that are far more important to us, day by day, but I'm not going to denigrate good news for the economy as a whole. We just need a lot more of it!

          2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

          by TRPChicago on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:57:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What good are strong finanacials (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            david78209

            if there isn't anyone who can afford to buy the nonexistant products no one is making (here) the media hype says we can't live without?  Doncha just luv crass consumerist economics?

            •  people need stuff (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              david78209

              every year.  companies make stuff, sell it to people.

              good strong financials means better retirement accounts for those that have them.

              for those that don't have them, many could without really losing that much take home pay.  

              there are though still way to many who are below those thresholds.

              -You want to change the system, run for office.

              by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:07:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  it is a myth that "the market" is "democratized" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            david78209

            and that "we all" have a "share" in it through 401ks and pension funds.

            The reality is that 60.6% of all financial securities in the US, 62.4% of all business equity, and 38.3% of all corporate stock, are owned by the 1% richest individuals.  

            Well over two-thirds of all Americans own no financial securities or stock at all--including IRAs, 401ks, pension funds, or investments.

            The market was, is, and always will be, a game for the rich.

            •  Even if we don't directly have investments, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              david78209

              ... many of us are participants in the market. Even if we're relegated to the numbers you give for the 1%, some of the rest is us.

              I don't resent "the rich" for having more than I have.

              Some of them - too darn many, perhaps - are malefactors of great wealth. Yes, because of what the wealthy have, they get attention and heft that by their works alone, they might not otherwise deserve. Beyond doubt, there is a maldistribution of wealth in the country that has not been the case to this extreme in many decades. America is not working well enough for significant numbers of her citizens.

              But none of that makes the stock market, as commenters have argued here, a casino or a game. And it doesn't make the success of the market worse for the rest of us.

              2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

              by TRPChicago on Fri May 03, 2013 at 12:48:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The really, really rich may like hard times (0+ / 0-)

                In hard times, they might drop down to just being really rich, but they may enjoy
                ---being able to 'get good help' because of high unemployment
                ---being able to get a seat right away at their favorite restaurant
                ---having a beach all to themselves at a resort because so few others can afford to go there
                ---not having to rub shoulders with the folks Mrs. Romney dismissed as "You people."

                We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

                by david78209 on Fri May 03, 2013 at 02:01:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  That's not true, by the latest report. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan

      Labor rate participation is unchanged from last month.

      "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

      by Inland on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:30:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan, citizenx, FiredUpInCA

      The labor force rose by 210,000 people last month.

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