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View Diary: Private enterprise shackled by Obamunism, aka Dow hits 15,000 for first time (153 comments)

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  •  everybody who has income, has money (0+ / 0-)

    to invest, especially for retirement.

    the trick is to figure out the sweet spot between your contribution and your taxes.

    you can essentially have the same take home pay every paycheck and have a retirement account.

    it is possible.  if you have income that is.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:41:47 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What ? (6+ / 0-)

      There are plenty of people who have jobs that don't pay enough to even live on .

      Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

      by indycam on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:44:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they pay taxes right? (0+ / 0-)

        if they pay taxes then yes they can find the sweet spot.

        it can mean your take home is the exact same.

        it's about your deductions, taxable income etc.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:47:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We'll give your number to all our (7+ / 0-)

          neighbors who are living from paycheck to paycheck so you can explain to them the possibilities of investing in the stock market to save for their retirement.  They're not currently convinced they'll ever be able to retire at all.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:52:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  it's not difficult (0+ / 0-)

            if i did their taxes, i could tell them their sweet spot.

            They're not currently convinced they'll ever be able to retire at all.
            It's unfortunate that most people haven't a clue about how to save for retirement.  You can lower your taxable income by putting money into a retirement account.  

            lowering your taxes means you get to keep a few more of your dollars.  those dollars would go to your retirement account, which could grow fairly well in good times.  

            if we all did that, maybe we would have more good times than bad...

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:55:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Only if you have enough to itemize, (0+ / 0-)

              and few have that. Otherwise, it's simply a smaller paycheck, because most of us will not change our marginal brackets by reducing our pre-tax income for any reason.

              "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

              by bryduck on Sat May 04, 2013 at 09:37:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Explain? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bryduck

          EVen if you're using some tax-advantaged savings like an IRA,  you still have a net drop in your take-home pay.  If you save a dollar, you only reduce the tax burden by the marginal Federal tax rate (not FICA, or State taxes, in many cases).  So you might "gain" 10 or 15 or 25 cents (depending on your tax bracket) in Federal income tax savings, but you're still taking home less money.

          •  it's about going down a bracket (0+ / 0-)

            it's not 1 to 1 as you think.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:55:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry, going down a bracket (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mr MadAsHell, VA Breeze, bryduck

              doesn't do anything for the income that's already under that bracket.

              You save the marginal rate on every dollar saved, and no more.

              If I'm $10 over the 25% bracket, and I save $20, my tax savings is $4 (25% on the $10 over the bracket, and 15% on the $10 under the bracket).

              So putting $20 into the IRA saves you $4 in taxes.  There's no example you can come up with where the tax savings make up for the foregone income.

              •  of course there is (0+ / 0-)

                say i made 40K.  i could put about 1200 in retirement account lowering me to the 15% bracket because my taxable income was now under 35K.

                my take home pay is actually about the same.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:24:09 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You don't understand marginal tax rates (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bryduck

                  You seem to think that your entire $40k in income is taxed at 25%, and then if you save enough to get your income below $35k, it's all taxed at 15%.

                  That's not how it works.

                  •  that's not what i said either (0+ / 0-)

                    i know how marginal tax rates work.  what i am saying is there is a sweet spot between retirement account contributions, taxable income and your take home pay.

                    it exists for most people but it may not seem like much.

                    over time though, that retirement account will grow and is much better than no retirement account.

                    -You want to change the system, run for office.

                    by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:44:05 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  depending on my deductions for the year (0+ / 0-)

                i can actually get a bigger paycheck by tweaking my retirement accounts.

                having them is very good.  

                not having them is just insane in my opinion.

                people can afford them.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:26:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  and if they don't pay taxes ? (0+ / 0-)

          Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

          by indycam on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:05:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  then there is very little room (0+ / 0-)

            that's a problem and we (Democrats) have solutions to that problem.

            however, over half of this country pays taxes and just about all of them should be putting money into a retirement account.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:16:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  which would mean the DOW etc. (0+ / 0-)

              plays an important role in most of our lives.

              and just about all of them should be putting money into a retirement account.
              managing our money, even if it's not very much, is very important.  people need to be educated.  not lied to.  like social security won't be there when you retire.

              or 401ks are a scam.  if you are passing up matching by your employer because you think you can't afford it, then you need to take another look.

              don't pass up that free money because you've been told a bunch of lies. don't pass up the opportunity to save for your retirement because of a bunch of lies.

              -You want to change the system, run for office.

              by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:18:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Full circle almost . (0+ / 0-)

              Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

              by indycam on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:31:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  The only problem is the (0+ / 0-)

      income part.

      •  but if they do have income (0+ / 0-)

        which most of america does.

        there is a sweet spot for most between taxes paid, taxable income and contributions to retirement accounts.

        which essentially means your take home is about the same.  why more people don't understand this is beyond me.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:52:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The issue is not that "most" Americans have (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hirodog

          income.

          The issue is that not enough Americans have enough income to stimulate demand, which creates jobs.

          Your comments about "sweet spots" may be true for individuals, but from a macroeconomic level austerity is screwing everyone.

          The most violent element in society is ignorance.

          by Mr MadAsHell on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:09:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you're talking broad economic issues (0+ / 0-)

            which isn't the topic at hand.  

            i was talking about the average joe being able to save for his retirement.

            he can do that and essentially keep his take home pay the same.   people keep spouting bullshit like social security won't be there for you and 401k accounts are bullshit.

            that's bad for all of us.  people need to know that saving for retirement is a must and possible. here's how.

            not it's all bullshit yadda yadda.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:13:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  so do tell. how does a part-time McD's worker (0+ / 0-)

              at minimum wage, save for retirement.

              Spell it out for us.

              (snicker)

              •  5 dollars every paycheck (0+ / 0-)

                until you can put in more.

                you could get your tax form out and figure out based on last years brackets, if you have a sweet spot that would essentially mean your take home pay was the same.

                $250 a year is better than nothing and depending on your deductions, your paycheck might be basically the same.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 10:29:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have a better idea (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  VA Breeze

                  How about we not cut Social Security, so people can live after they retire.

                  Your Horatio Alger mythology is amusing.

                  •  social security wasn't meant to be your retirement (0+ / 0-)

                    it was always meant to keep you from starving.

                    when it was first enacted it started basically at the age people were currently dying and excluded black people.

                    we should do better, but that's not on the table with republicans holding everything hostage.

                    there are tons of better ideas..  hardly any of them can get passed.  getting something passed is better than having nothing.  which means compromise.  it's why legislation is almost always a shit sandwich.  this is how it is.  we have to deal with the reality we have.

                    -You want to change the system, run for office.

                    by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 10:36:51 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  At no point down here does a (0+ / 0-)

                  $5 paycheck deduction = a $5 reduction in taxes owed. That's impossible in a marginal tax rate structure.
                  $250 a year might be better than nothing, but at the end of one's life after 40 years of labor, it still adds up to "not enough to live on beyond another year" @ $20K--even if one's investment doubles! Yay sacrifice!

                  "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                  by bryduck on Sat May 04, 2013 at 09:47:46 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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