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View Diary: Private enterprise shackled by Obamunism, aka Dow hits 15,000 for first time (153 comments)

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  •  What ? (6+ / 0-)

    There are plenty of people who have jobs that don't pay enough to even live on .

    Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

    by indycam on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:44:29 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  they pay taxes right? (0+ / 0-)

      if they pay taxes then yes they can find the sweet spot.

      it can mean your take home is the exact same.

      it's about your deductions, taxable income etc.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:47:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We'll give your number to all our (7+ / 0-)

        neighbors who are living from paycheck to paycheck so you can explain to them the possibilities of investing in the stock market to save for their retirement.  They're not currently convinced they'll ever be able to retire at all.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:52:58 AM PDT

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        •  it's not difficult (0+ / 0-)

          if i did their taxes, i could tell them their sweet spot.

          They're not currently convinced they'll ever be able to retire at all.
          It's unfortunate that most people haven't a clue about how to save for retirement.  You can lower your taxable income by putting money into a retirement account.  

          lowering your taxes means you get to keep a few more of your dollars.  those dollars would go to your retirement account, which could grow fairly well in good times.  

          if we all did that, maybe we would have more good times than bad...

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:55:17 AM PDT

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          •  Only if you have enough to itemize, (0+ / 0-)

            and few have that. Otherwise, it's simply a smaller paycheck, because most of us will not change our marginal brackets by reducing our pre-tax income for any reason.

            "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

            by bryduck on Sat May 04, 2013 at 09:37:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Explain? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bryduck

        EVen if you're using some tax-advantaged savings like an IRA,  you still have a net drop in your take-home pay.  If you save a dollar, you only reduce the tax burden by the marginal Federal tax rate (not FICA, or State taxes, in many cases).  So you might "gain" 10 or 15 or 25 cents (depending on your tax bracket) in Federal income tax savings, but you're still taking home less money.

        •  it's about going down a bracket (0+ / 0-)

          it's not 1 to 1 as you think.

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 08:55:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry, going down a bracket (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mr MadAsHell, VA Breeze, bryduck

            doesn't do anything for the income that's already under that bracket.

            You save the marginal rate on every dollar saved, and no more.

            If I'm $10 over the 25% bracket, and I save $20, my tax savings is $4 (25% on the $10 over the bracket, and 15% on the $10 under the bracket).

            So putting $20 into the IRA saves you $4 in taxes.  There's no example you can come up with where the tax savings make up for the foregone income.

            •  of course there is (0+ / 0-)

              say i made 40K.  i could put about 1200 in retirement account lowering me to the 15% bracket because my taxable income was now under 35K.

              my take home pay is actually about the same.

              -You want to change the system, run for office.

              by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:24:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You don't understand marginal tax rates (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bryduck

                You seem to think that your entire $40k in income is taxed at 25%, and then if you save enough to get your income below $35k, it's all taxed at 15%.

                That's not how it works.

                •  that's not what i said either (0+ / 0-)

                  i know how marginal tax rates work.  what i am saying is there is a sweet spot between retirement account contributions, taxable income and your take home pay.

                  it exists for most people but it may not seem like much.

                  over time though, that retirement account will grow and is much better than no retirement account.

                  -You want to change the system, run for office.

                  by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:44:05 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  depending on my deductions for the year (0+ / 0-)

              i can actually get a bigger paycheck by tweaking my retirement accounts.

              having them is very good.  

              not having them is just insane in my opinion.

              people can afford them.

              -You want to change the system, run for office.

              by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:26:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  and if they don't pay taxes ? (0+ / 0-)

        Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

        by indycam on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:05:41 AM PDT

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        •  then there is very little room (0+ / 0-)

          that's a problem and we (Democrats) have solutions to that problem.

          however, over half of this country pays taxes and just about all of them should be putting money into a retirement account.

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:16:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  which would mean the DOW etc. (0+ / 0-)

            plays an important role in most of our lives.

            and just about all of them should be putting money into a retirement account.
            managing our money, even if it's not very much, is very important.  people need to be educated.  not lied to.  like social security won't be there when you retire.

            or 401ks are a scam.  if you are passing up matching by your employer because you think you can't afford it, then you need to take another look.

            don't pass up that free money because you've been told a bunch of lies. don't pass up the opportunity to save for your retirement because of a bunch of lies.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:18:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Full circle almost . (0+ / 0-)

            Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

            by indycam on Fri May 03, 2013 at 09:31:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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