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View Diary: Is there a God? (With Poll) (279 comments)

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  •  I believe (4+ / 0-)

    I choose to.
    I do not believe in religion but God...yes.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Sat May 18, 2013 at 04:38:09 PM PDT

    •  The idea of choosing to believe (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tim DeLaney, mimi

      has always struck me as a difficult thing.

      Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

      by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 07:03:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why? I think everyone chooses to believe (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AaronInSanDiego, Vetwife

        in something and not in another thing. You make a choice, always, may be without realizing? I have seen people choosing to believe in something and then they chose not to believe in it anymore. What do you mean with your comment?

        •  In general, I don't think it's a choice. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueoasis

          I believe or I don't, based on a number of factors. To try to believe one way or the other, to convince myself to believe something that I don't, takes a lot of effort. The factors which may lead me to believe one way or another may involve choices, but not the belief itself.

          Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 10:18:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  difficult for me to follow you (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AaronInSanDiego
            ...to convince myself to believe something that I don't, takes a lot of effort....
            Why would you even need to convince yourself to believe something that you don't. You don't believe in it. Period.
            There shouldn't be any effort involved to convince yourself of something to believe in, if you already know you don't believe in it.

            Hopefully I am not too insensitive and too ignorant to understand your thoughts or feelings. If I should cross over to you that way, I apologize.

            •  If I already believe in it, then I'm (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tim DeLaney, mimi, blueoasis

              not making a choice to believe. To make a choice to believe something means that one doesn't believe it to begin with. To choose to believe something one doesn't already believe seems to require effort.

              I have actually tried to do something like this, as part of a cognitive therapy approach to combating negative beliefs about myself and the world which exacerbate my depression. But it is not easy.

              Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

              by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 10:36:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  thanks, I think I "get" it a little bit now, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AaronInSanDiego

                and the fact that you tried to believe in something you didn't already believe then seems to be a rather heroic effort, especially in the context you tried it.

                I wished I could afford a therapy like that sometimes. I hope it helped a little.

        •  Good point mimi (0+ / 0-)

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Sun May 19, 2013 at 03:10:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  it is not a simple thing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AaronInSanDiego

        If you were a child and brought up around faith..then believe or not as a child..it is one thing.  When you grow up and learn other thoughts and beliefs and non beliefs and then are taught outside your realm of famiy and friends from college and beyond...then you ponder all the inward, intense searching with the same questions all people ask.   You really have to get very honest with your self and your feelings and your why's.  Then if you are fortunate enough to really examine one's self and then have an actual experience of faith..nothing can shake it.
        Absolutely nothing.  My faith is so personal, I won't go into some of the experience but it is a choice one makes after much soul searching including one's walk with education and science .  It is a simple . whether it is the experience or .I believe because or I just cannot  buy that  things work so timely that it on a master level of spirit rather than something one can explain.  It's a choice.  I had advantage to be exposed to many faiths, and yes a few miracles.

        We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

        by Vetwife on Sun May 19, 2013 at 03:08:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for explaining, although (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vetwife

          I still don't really understand. But I don't think that's your fault.

          Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sun May 19, 2013 at 03:17:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry Vetwife... (0+ / 0-)

          But your comments made very little sense to me. I actually could not summarize them if I tried.  Maybe you could start by explaining the statement that you have been "exposed to... miracles."

          •  Well.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AaronInSanDiego

            I can think of one miracle that I was exposed to and you may think it crazy...Our daughter when she was just 9 years old had Juvenile Diabetes.   She went into a Diabetic Coma with a blood sugar level of over 900.  We had no clue she was diabetic and had been misidiagnosed.  She was on life support and was was in ketosis.   She had been flown to Eglestons.. Three days and no response...Three nights and no response.  The doctors were working at Eglestons with her.  ( Think Steel Magnolias..The movie)...She was so thin and so sick.  We begged her to wake up...On the 4th day.  The doctors said it looke bad and she was not responding on life support.  She was in Pediatric ICU.   I got so tore up and left the room and called our church and pastor.  We had not slept nor eaten and were exhausted,   He and his wife drove to Atlanta and had a prayer cloth.  I give no perks to the pastor except he lived his faith.  He said over and over it was not him who awoke her.     He took the cloth and whispered to her with eyes tightly shut and his wife holding his hand and she awoke suddenly and doctors and nurses even dropped things to run to her bedside.  She was totally alert..all signs of her ketosis was gone and she was at home in two days.   She is twenty three now and he never ever said HE did this.   No it was not a coincidence because two doctors told us they had seen this thing once or twice before on a spiritual level,  and we asked her why she couldn't wake up when we called her and she said she couldn't hear us ..We sounded far away but the preacher sounded like a megaphone.. ( he whispered).   He told her to open her eyes.. ( we could hear that part).  That happened and it was a miracle..  They already were prepping us for her demise.   That is what I am talking about.  Today she does not go to church but she has never forgotten that day and still is a believer in something bigger than she.  

            That is what I am talking about and I do not care if anyone believes the story or can relate to it but I WAS THERE.  I saw and felt what happened .   So did the pediatric unit.

            We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

            by Vetwife on Sun May 19, 2013 at 08:42:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that. n/t (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Vetwife

              Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

              by AaronInSanDiego on Sun May 19, 2013 at 10:05:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The preacher was not even a faith healer (0+ / 0-)

                But we had hundreds praying.  We were praying and it was a moment in time people don't forget.  You should talk to Nurse Kelley..Wow....she has some beautiful stories that she has witnessed.

                There is also another story about a VA decision turned around in 24 hours and even congresspeople called it a miracle because VA does not change their mind in 24 hours.   Things like that.   There are stories behind them but like I said..I could write books and it still be hard to explain.  All of these things have involved faith and prayer in something higher that we.

                We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

                by Vetwife on Sun May 19, 2013 at 10:11:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thank you Vetwife for taking the time to answer. (0+ / 0-)

                  So you are essentially saying that your daughter waking up at that point could not have been due to the fact that she was coming out of the coma (could hear you faintly) and was about to come out completely (why the pastor's voice sounded louder) on her own?  Doesn't that explanation sound a bit more real than yours?  

                  The other thing I'd like to point out about prayer and miracles is that the belief that a deity answered those activities for you and not for the next person begs the question of the morality of the deity.  If god has the powers you describe and uses them for some and not others, isn't that immoral on his part?

                  •  My daughter was NOT according to the docs (0+ / 0-)

                    coming out of the coma.   I wished you could have seen that room of professionals when she sat up laughing and talking.  

                    Well...no...because my belief is that things happen in God's time not ours.   Sometimes the things we pray for is not in our best interest and that is why we must be careful
                    for God's will be done.   Another example of that is my niece at 15 was in an extremely bad car wreck.  She went through the windshield, hit a pine tree, had to have complete reconstructive surgery.  She was in pain and given up for dead.  It took a long time for the Rescue to even find her.  There were many prayers..MANY that went up non stop from different faiths.  She did recover.  She had glass in her face, suffered from a spleen removal, a kidney removal, and migranes all her life.  She got married and gave birth to a special needs child.   She worked for a veternarian, loved animals, children, and all around a very good person  and suffered with headaches and glass still in her face but she was hit by a drunk driver 12 years to the day and was killed instantly.   Not a mark on her,
                    My sister who grieves daily, her only child tells me now..She believes she was meant to die in the 1st wreck.
                    For 12 years she suffered.  

                    I do not believe we can know our future nor when we don't understand that we can reason the answers.. I believe it is above out understanding of spirituality.  i believe it was meant for her to die in a car wreck ..when was the key.  Were the prayers answered and then she suffered?  I also have some serious questions regarding our daughter and comas..She now has a baby girl......She still is going into comas.  

                    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

                    by Vetwife on Sun May 19, 2013 at 03:36:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think God has the power to do everthing (0+ / 0-)

                      He also gave man Free will.   My belief is with faith, he does answer prayers...it is just sometimes prayers are answered because of our faithfulness of belief and then there are no do overs.  Things will happen in their time eventually.  I think as a believer I have to trust...and pray for strength and the wisdom to know how to pray.
                      It rains on the just and the injust.  The only immorality I see, is with man but I am not their judge but I believe they have one whether they believe or not.  

                      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

                      by Vetwife on Sun May 19, 2013 at 03:43:47 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Vetwife... (0+ / 0-)

                        From your description of your god, I just can't see your attraction to such a complicated and convoluted system run by this deity.  It is fraught with contradictions and just plain unintelligible explanations.  Why would a deity interface with its creation out of a separate time frame?

                        You come very close to saying that your prayers had more "faithfulness" than the prayers of others that were not answered in a positive way.  This is rather arrogant, don't you think?  Do you see how those statements come across to others?

                        You are saying that your niece was spared only to suffer continually from that point on and that this god spared her life in response to prayer, but really meant for her to die in that crash.. so what does this mean????  That god's lesson to everyone was "pray, but don't do it if I really meant for something else to happen because there will be consequences"???

                        If anyone is ripe for judgement in my view, it is this "God" that you describe.  Or as someone said once in a blog I read..."If man can recognize immorality in god, where does morality originate?"

                    •  I cannot criticize a person for having faith that (0+ / 0-)

                      helps them deal with such loss and suffering, even if I can't believe it myself.

                      Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

                      by AaronInSanDiego on Sun May 19, 2013 at 08:48:47 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

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