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  •  No, it's completely different (2+ / 0-)
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    Urizen, aguadito

    The police are a formal institution given the right to kill by the state and given legitimacy by the same. I'm not labeling people, I'm pointing out that they are part of an institution that is racist, regardless of what their personal beliefs are. The difference between that and occupy is immense and comparing the two is absurd.

    and, the best way we can fight the worst ones in the pd is by eliciting the aid of once officer at a time.  there we can build enough support for those single officers to stand up against corruption within.
    Sure, that will help with corruption in the department. But that means they're still jailing huge numbers of people of color. Which you can't seem to talk about. They are bad because they support an institution that's bad. I'm sure they love dogs and are nice and all that, but then they enforce racist laws and support a racist institution. But you want to sweep that under the table and pretend like they are all just individuals.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Mon May 06, 2013 at 12:49:48 PM PDT

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    •  AoT, i think that by making these types of (0+ / 0-)

      generalizations and accusations, you are unfair to those who put their own lives on the line to protect yours.  did you see the picture of otteray scribe's daughter?  

      do you know the makeup of the epa pd?  how can you sweep everyone out the door because you mistrust (and mislabel) the police.  they are not a "formal institution" - the police are citizens within a community that are hired to keep the law... and it is by the law that we have civilized society.

      when the law is wrong, work to change it - but you cannot equate the police with unequal law.  they do not have the luxury of choosing which laws to ignore (although they do on occasion).  theirs is a sworn duty to uphold the law.

      without order, without enforcement of laws that prohibit violence against another, theft, even traffic - there would be chaos in society.  we no longer live in villages where shunning is sufficient to bring those who would do harm to account.

      when you state the police enforce "racist" laws - please be specific.  the police are enjoined to enforce ALL laws - it is up to the citizens through their votes to elect people who will appoint the legislature to alter those laws.

      it is easy to blame the police but it is wrong.  that people of color are prosecuted and meted harsher problems is not the responsibility of the police - it is the responsibility of the voters who elect prosecutors, d.a.'s, state representatives, governors and even presidents.  it is the responsibility of the jurors who mete out different verdicts for crack than cocaine because of who is doing the using.  it is a societal problem, not a police problem.  until people recognize this, nothing is going to change.

      the police are not those people and the police are NOT the problem.

      EdriesShop Is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?

      by edrie on Mon May 06, 2013 at 01:11:21 PM PDT

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      •  They are a formal institution (1+ / 0-)
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        aguadito

        How can you even say otherwise? If you're willing to ignore that basic fact then there isn't any conversation to be had.

        it is easy to blame the police but it is wrong.  that people of color are prosecuted and meted harsher problems is not the responsibility of the police - it is the responsibility of the voters who elect prosecutors, d.a.'s, state representatives, governors and even presidents.
        So blame every single person except the people who are actually capturing and assaulting people? That makes no sense.
        when you state the police enforce "racist" laws - please be specific.  the police are enjoined to enforce ALL laws - it is up to the citizens through their votes to elect people who will appoint the legislature to alter those laws.
        Exactly, the police will enforce any law. They're just following orders and you will give them a pass for that. Yes, individual officers are individuals, but they are a member of a formal organization that has rules and requires that they do immoral things. It requires that they enforce racist laws as well. If they were merely individuals they wouldn't have the right to threaten my life for breaking the law. But they do have that right.
        the police are not those people and the police are NOT the problem.
        Yes, I know you think that. But I hold people to what they do. I don't just let them off because someone else told them to do it. You want to let them off the hook because they were told to do bad things by other, I don't.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Mon May 06, 2013 at 01:27:20 PM PDT

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        •  bravo (0+ / 0-)
          I don't just let them off because someone else told them to do it. You want to let them off the hook because they were told to do bad things by other, I don't.
          Nice to see at least one other person in this diary who posesses the level of morality on par with the Nuremberg Trials.

          It seems our post-9/11 torturing and dismantling of civil rights has desensitized people like the diarist whose standards are so low that they actually think people who "just follow orders" are innocent in this all.

          This doctrine of "I'm just a soldier" is unacceptable. All stakeholders in the policestate and military-industrial-complex are responsible for the corrupt system.

          Deficits don't matter, jobs do.

          by aguadito on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:28:41 AM PDT

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