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View Diary: Let's Teach the Controversy of Evolution vs Intelligent Design **Updated with Poll question** (365 comments)

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  •  I would suggest a book for you, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, Orakio, terrypinder, JerryNA

    Merchants of Doubt.

    It seems to me, that many of the issues you describe were and are the same tactics used by tobacco and now big oil to fuel other forms of scientific denial.

    I don't have an issue with people questioning how Science is applied to the real world, because sometimes best laid plans don't work out as well, in the real world or society.

    BUT--and this is a big but, I do object to religious indoctrination couched as "Scientific Counterpoint" especially on my tax dollars in a public school.

    1. It violates the separation of church and state.
    2. Its capitalizing students as a captive audience.
    3. it's a waste of our financial resources teaching pseudo science instead of a good understanding of scientific method--and the difference between a hypothesis and a theory, and frankly--pure hokum.

    I believe that Scientists can compete with the shiny soundbites, they just need to practice their communication skills better.

    I really recommend that book. I believe it will give you some ideas on how better to approach this.

    •  I think we are missing an oppurtunity (0+ / 0-)

      Students will learn as much, if not more, about evolution when they are asked to use it to dismantle ID.

      •  I disagree. ID is just another method to insert (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybersaur, JerryNA

        Christian Fundamentalism into the classroom as a tool of indoctrination.

        Other forms of Science Denial? Ignorance Only---AKA Abstinence Only education wherein children are often told outright lies about how their reproductive processes work, how to use birth control or disease prevention devices like the Pill, Condoms, etc., and so on.

        I object to this very strongly because all this is, IS religious indoctrination. Attacking science is merely the vehicle for doing that, because they know that it's easier to appeal to people's fear, uncertainty and doubt--a cluster of emotional components that are often absent from initial explorations of Science.

        And you are falling for it.

        The kind of people who formulate these attacks are understand very well, manipulating people via emotional buttons. Not exactly the strong point for most Scientists in the hard sciences.

        Don't give into this BS--it will not go well at all.

        If it were any other way, then all the religions would be reasonably accommodated in this, but they are not. The same people who push ID are hostile to any other religion, are xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic and lots of other unsavory things. Giving in on this one thing is simply a very bad idea.

        •  agree to disagree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joieau

          Teaching science as rote memory (as is done more often than we would like to admit) has led to a society that has no idea how to think critically about a whole host of issues.  We need new methods to help students understand why the scientific method is relevant to their lives.  

          This method serves to teach the strength and flexibility of the scientific method.  

          But not to worry, none of this will come to pass.  We will continue down to path of conflict between science and religion, science will stay tucked safely in the fetal position, and the standing of our scientific community will continue to decline to nothingness.

          Nothing to see here.  Move along.

          •  I guess we will have to. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JerryNA

            I home school because of this issue. It profoundly affects the quality of public education in my area. Sadly the surreptitious teaching of fundamentalist Chistianism has been a big problem here for generations, and instead of staying local, has spread from the South and the MidWest to every other state.

            So be my guest, and help them achieve their agenda. You won't be furthering critical thinking skills at all, because some of the Science Teachers are in on it, as are the Social Studies, English, Math and History Teachers.

            Enjoy your theocracy.

            •  yes (0+ / 0-)

              I have commented in other areas of this discussion about how this would only be possible if we could trust the scientific aptitude of all science teachers (which is of course impossible).  I guess my point is a more theoretical one, that comparing scientific and non-scientific theories (in a scientific setting) is especially bad for the non-scientific ones.  They are simply out of their league.  

              So taken out of the schooling context, I would argue that it is time for scientists to stop saying "that's not science so I won't discuss it."  Instead they should explain why ID is not science and would not stand up to the intense criticism of a true scientific inquiry.

              •  Well I have good news for you then. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dark11star, JerryNA
                They are simply out of their league.  
                The fundies are out of their league too. They do not know shit about their own religion, much less about religious history in general, sociology or anthropology either.

                It's not hard to overtake them in these topics. Even if they whip out a "divinity degree" from ye old Bob Jones Diploma Mill, they still don't know a damn thing outside their own extremist narrative.

                I know you don't personally know me, and it's cool. You don't have to trust me.

                They don't know about things as simple as Doctrinal Authority, nor can they explain transubstantiation. Many do not even know who Martin Luther is [and I am not talking MLK Jr either].

                They have you fooled into thinking they are some kind of expert, but really what they are fooling you with is fervor and cultish devotion.

                 I have said this on another thread, and I will repeat it here, and I am totally serious.

                If you want to teach the controversy, let it be the controversy of other Creationism myths from their perceived religious rivals.

                Historically whenever these fundies have tried to dominate an are and push their junk, all that has to happen is for Pagans or some other minority religion to show up and demand equal time, and their bullshit house of cards falls apart.

                Their faith will not allow them to tolerate that, and then it becomes abundantly clear that this ID BS is really just a tool to indoctrinate children into a very specific form of Christian fundamentalism. It's not about religious thought or feelings, it's not tolerance, or interfaith, or even interdenominational.

                Make them, force them to share equal time with an occult based philosophy and watch them squirm. Then you will get the proof you need to show what this is really about. And it's not science of philosophy, or higher learning. It's just indoc into a cult, using our tax dollars and our Science Classes, our Social Studies Classes, revisionist history books, to do they dirty work, while gutting all of these academic disciplines .

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