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View Diary: Let's Teach the Controversy of Evolution vs Intelligent Design **Updated with Poll question** (365 comments)

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  •  No, no, no! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cybersaur

    Appealing to introspection is exactly the wrong approach to understanding consciousness. The right approach, IMHO, is to study the brain in the most minute detail possible. When we gain an understanding of what the brain does, and how it does it, we are on the right track toward understanding consciousness.

    Note to Boehner and McConnell: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." --Bob Dylan-- (-7.25, -6.21)

    by Tim DeLaney on Mon May 06, 2013 at 04:14:31 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tim DeLaney, cybersaur

      Ultimately, the mind must map upon the brain.  

      As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

      by BPARTR on Mon May 06, 2013 at 04:40:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes Yes Yes (0+ / 0-)

      Ruling out introspective knowledge also rules out study of the brain.

      How do you have any knowledge of the brain without referece to your own experience/observation.

      Did you read a book about the brain ...that is an experience.

      Did you perform surgery, open up the skull and take a look at a real live brain ... that is an exerience.

      In the same way, I'm referring also to experience.  If you are saying I can't trust my experience, can't I turn it back on you and see you cannot trust yours?

      •  You evidently have a different definition (0+ / 0-)

        of "introspection" than I do. Reading books or performing surgery are not my idea of introspection.

        Note to Boehner and McConnell: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." --Bob Dylan-- (-7.25, -6.21)

        by Tim DeLaney on Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:33:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, perhaps we do have different definitions. (0+ / 0-)

          In using the term introspection, I meant being sensitive to the whole of one's experience.  If there is a better term for such a thing I'd be thankful for the input.

          Hopefully this helps and we can get beyond semantics and back to  substance... according to this specific definition of introspection (or whatever word you might feel more appropriate) does this clarify or do you have remaining issues with what I've said?

        •  I just read your definition after posting above. (0+ / 0-)

          Actually, your definition might serve my purpose.

          "observation or examination of one's own mental and emotional state, mental processes, etc.; the act of looking within oneself. "

          does that not include this?

          "observation of one's own mental processes"

          If so, is not reading a book an [observed] mental process?

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