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View Diary: Let's Teach the Controversy of Evolution vs Intelligent Design **Updated with Poll question** (365 comments)

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  •  while I would _like_ to believe this idea, (1+ / 0-)
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    Joieau

    I cannot.  It is a hope, a wish-fulfillment fantasy, not science.  We all want to leave something behind that endures.  We all want to not stop living, death is scary.  That does not make any of these ideas true.  Given that consciousness cannot be defined very well in words, never mind described in scientific or even mathematical terms, we're not even close to having a science of what we loosely call being conscious.  For right now, we just "know it when we see it".  :)

    •  Speak for yourself. (0+ / 0-)

      I am not scared of death. But I've lived a pretty long time, and I've met death more than once. Dying is scary, but death is not. In fact, it's a lot surer an outcome than [live] birth ever was. Of course, that's philosophical, a rumination of consciousness and conscious experience of life and death on planet earth.

      So in my investigations of the subject of consciousness, it is not my "wishes" or "wants" that dictate what avenues appear to be the most promising to me. It's a genuine curiosity about the Totality of Reality. I'd love to know. Don't expect I ever really will. Just curious that way, I guess.

      I'm not a big believer in magic. Can't help it, just know way too many magicians to believe in any of it as anything more than clever sleight-of-mind. And even that presupposes there's a mind to be fooled. I do have some experience in the fields of biophysics and quantum physics, so I am at least able to follow the gist of the most interesting arguments and hypotheses in this quest. In that vein, I'd have to say that Sir Roger Penrose and anesthesiologist Stuart Hameroff have fairly described their theories - both physical and biological - with some pretty darned good scientific and mathematical terminology.

      Why, they even have precise boundary limits for when rudimentary process crosses the line into actually measurable consciousness. That's a lot more than simple denial ever has or ever will produce.

      P.S. I've said nothing about "left behind," haven't broached the subjects of ghosts and goulies, afterlives, heavens, hells, or even reincarnation. I have approached the subject of Hilbert Spaces and the so-far indeterminate number of dimensions there may be in the Totality of Reality.

      Fact: So far, all attempts to unify the few forces we know of/experience in our reality require the mathematical addition of "extra" dimensionalities (to do away with those pesky singularities that keep rearing their ugly heads). Anywhere from 7 to infinity - favorite so far has 22. If indeed there are more than 3+1 dimensions in the Totality of Reality, it is impossible - a fatal fallacy - for us to arbitrarily rule out the existence of consciousness in any or all of them.

      Worse, we do not yet have a decent handle on the true nature of time, do we?

      •  Way ahead of me, Joieau. (1+ / 0-)
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        Joieau

        You're far ahead of me in thinking about these matters.  
        "I are jest a simple biochemist."

        •  LOL! Well, to tell the truth, (0+ / 0-)

          I've been at it for quite awhile now. Even worse than that, one of my favorite "Theories of Everything" - lots and lots of those out there these days - has a mere 8 dimensions, but applies to a multi-sheeted space-time (at least one more than Penrose's, though Sir Roger did give Matti credit where credit is due for in OR theory). Unlike Penrose's 'graviton', Pitkaanen's extremal has a hedgehog vector. Like a monopole. Requires more than one collapse of wavefunction to become 'real'...

          I've always figured that if a "Theory of Everything" can't account for consciousness and all the very odd phenomena of consciousness, it's not worth the paper it's printed on - or the memory in which it's stored.

          Nobody's got the answers at this point in time and space, so it's all good brain-exercising fun!

        •  And because I am enjoying (0+ / 0-)

          the exercise, I'll say that in truth, there's no irrefutable physical evidence out there to establish that ANYTHING ever exists apart from the present moment - which we always experience with a time-delay of several microseconds, so we're not really 'here now' either. The entire universe could be recreating itself completely in between 'instantons' of time as everything moves through space (trajectory-driven, ever-evolving coordinates). If we had a decent handle on time, that is, and we don't.

          Personally, I think reality is mostly habit. You could spontaneously fly apart to opposite ends of the universe one moment to the next. Or find yourself being a crow instead of a human, or walk through walls, or... But our atoms are "used to" being what they were in the moments past, so tend to be the same in moments future. Sort of a 'sum of histories' probability thing. With occasional oopses, that is. Given that matter is cheap, but spontaneously decays on occasion for no apparent reason. §:o)

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