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View Diary: FBI Disrupts Terror Plot in MN Trailer Park (187 comments)

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  •  Thanks for the link. Don't know how I missed it. (6+ / 0-)

    Going over for a chuckle.

    Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

    by Smoh on Tue May 07, 2013 at 08:31:19 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I missed it too, just read it (13+ / 0-)

      but I didn't chuckle. That diary reads like pure NRA scare tactics, bordering on CT. Apparently we're now supposed to believe that gun regulation would cause the US military to rise up in rebellion against the government.

      •  If that's true (7+ / 0-)

        then the military is a serious threat to national security and must be dealt with by, say, disbanding it and removing its firearms.

        Do people like that think about what their arguments may imply?

        The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln

        by raboof on Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:58:01 AM PDT

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      •  It was a long diary, wasn't it (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        walkshills, AoT, ichibon

        Hard to get all the way through the various points. Probably explains why lots of folks are missing the point. He's not saying there would be a revolt over gun regulations. He's suggesting a possibility that not all military personnel would align with the 21st century version of the union if it came down to federal enforcement against the growing number of states who are in the process of writing legislation to nullify any federal regulations of guns. I think it's highly unlikely to come to that, but maybe some folks in 1859 beleived it was unlikely to come to that then.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:59:44 AM PDT

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        •  It was conspiracy theory, pure speculation (6+ / 0-)

          I really find it a little disturbing that you are defending it.

          And what exactly do you call (paraphrasing you here) the military not willing to defend federal laws except a revolt?

          Frankly I think you're the one misinterpreting the diary, not everyone else.

          I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

          by coquiero on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:04:55 AM PDT

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          •  We'll have to agree to disagree (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ColoTim, ichibon

            Perhaps I shouldn't have read this diary first, since it kind of reminded me of how people can collectively end up letting things get out of control. I felt the diary in dispute showed how such a thing could be possible, though as I note I think it highly improbable. Nevertheless, the tenthers have been at it awhile, and there are several states playing with nullification, which is a little like "playing" with fireworks.

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:21:35 AM PDT

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            •  Don't buy into CT (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Catte Nappe, Glen The Plumber, Smoh

              You'll go crazy.

              I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

              by coquiero on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:23:10 AM PDT

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            •  I'm sorry, but I don't believe that hyperbolic... (12+ / 0-)

              ... bullshit about members of the military taking up arms against the federal government. That's what the diarist suggested based on his/her experience with members of the military.

              No facts, no numbers to support such a wild-eyed hypothesis, just anecdotal, hyperbolic bullshit.

              "Just sayin' it could happen..." is a Glenn Beck-style technique best left to crazy, paranoid conspiracy sites like Becks' "The Blaze."

              We don't need to promulgate that shit here.

              Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

              by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:25:15 AM PDT

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              •  The point is not that they (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Catte Nappe, ichibon

                would just arbitrarily quit and fight the government. It is that there would be a serious problem if they were called in to enforce federal regulations against states who decide to nullify gun laws. It is a bit of a conspiracy theory to think that they would call in the army to do that but it's very different to say that the army wouldn't have serious personnel issues if they we're called into Texas to force the government there to enforce gun laws.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:59:36 AM PDT

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                •  When the fuck is that going to happen? (10+ / 0-)

                  That's the kind of idiotic, lunatic-fringe shit I'm talking about. We have courts, we have legislatures and we have the ballot. All of this NRA-style fear-mongering about what might happen is complete and utter bullshit -- tin-foil hat crap that regularly gets spewed on right wing sites.

                  It's nuts. It has no place here. And I find it particularly disgusting that leading members of the Daily Kos RKBA group would recommend such crap.

                  Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

                  by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:03:58 AM PDT

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                  •  When people in the military are talking (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Catte Nappe, ichibon

                    about it then it's a problem. Whether or not their conspiracy theories are true the fact of the matter is that the military is highly infiltrated by right-wing religious wing nuts. That's a serious fucking problem, really serious. And folks like you just poo-poo it as being conspiracy theory. These people are itching for a fight and they'll take whatever excuse they can get at this point.

                    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                    by AoT on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:11:15 AM PDT

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                    •  No, sorry, if you believe that then you should be (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      lapin, gramofsam1, Smoh

                      ... watching Glenn Beck. Members of the military are not going to take up organized, armed resistance to the federal government.

                      They're not.

                      Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

                      by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:27:58 AM PDT

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                      •  You clearly don't understand (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Catte Nappe, ichibon

                        These are people who listen to Beck. They are explicit about opposing the government in certain cases. They have been infiltrating the military for years. Why do you think that the report on domestic terrorism all those years ago had a section on ex-military people? Because the right recruits in the military. It's enough of a problem that the military took action on the issue.

                        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                        by AoT on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:40:03 AM PDT

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                        •  EX military (4+ / 0-)

                          There's a reason why the EX is there.

                          They can't take orders or cooperate as part of a team. They also tend to be racists, and cant deal when they have to take orders from somebody who they dont think should be giving them.

                          If they could, they wouldn't be EX Military.

                          •  Go read the link (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            ichibon

                            active military. The report warned of ex-military because they are the ones most likely to commit acts of terrorism in country. There are wingers in the military to recruit them as well as influence the military itself.

                            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                            by AoT on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:47:04 AM PDT

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                        •  So what? (6+ / 0-)

                          There have been crazy militia movements in this country forever. What the NRA and people like Beck try to do is tie these lunatic movements to gun legislation. These idiots are out there, regardless, as we are witnessing in Minnesota. As we witnessed with Tim McVeigh.

                          To tie the issue to efforts to put limits on guns is the issue, not whether lunatic fringe militia movements exist. The other diarist suggested, based on his claimed experience, that members of the military might form organized resistance groups to the federal government based on efforts to curb guns.

                          Pure, unadulterated bullshit. NRA fear-mongering nonsense.

                          "Oh, don't talk about limiting guns or the military may turn on the government!"

                          Do you believe that? Seriously?

                          Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

                          by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:45:34 AM PDT

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                          •  Oh, sorry, I meant an outright ban (4+ / 0-)

                            or forcing the military to enforce gun laws. The idea that the military would somehow rise up if assault weapons were banned or universal background checks were instituted is absolutely idiotic.

                            I hadn't read the diary so I wasn't clear on what the trigger was suppose to be. I mean, we know the military won't rise up if there's an assault weapon ban. We've had that before and it's never happened.

                            I'm just tired of seeing people dismiss the infiltration of the military by the cristianists/wingers as not important. It's a serious issue and like every other case of right wing violence it's being glossed over.

                            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                            by AoT on Tue May 07, 2013 at 12:05:13 PM PDT

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                          •  That's been a problem with this diary (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            AoT

                            It's long, it slooowly builds up its thesis. I am in a minority that is not reading it as a proposition that any in the military would rise up if there were stricter gun regulations. Diarist specifically deals with the many states that are passing (or attempting to pass) nullification legislation, leading to discussion of the potential that at least some in the military would balk if asked to enforce federal regulations in states that did have nullification of gun regulations.  As I take it, the whole focus on gun rights is his perception that military members might not be exactly happy if the difference between feds and states was something like the ACA, but if it was related to the 2nd amendment then many would not be joining the "union" army.  
                            As I also expressed in some other comments, I read this diary after reading the highly recced one about the lead up to the Civil War -there seemed to me to be some parallels there.

                            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                            by Catte Nappe on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:33:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Ike Sent 1000 Paratroopers To Little Rock (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AoT, ichibon

                  ...to desegregate the schools at bayonet point to enforce laws that the sates wanted to nullify.

                  Dismissing the diary as pure fantasy ignores history.

                  There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

                  by bernardpliers on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:21:29 PM PDT

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          •  It went beyond not willing to defend (4+ / 0-)

            federal laws. Here's his (unsupported) anecdote from The Basic School:

             Then he asked, "If it came to it, how many of you would resign to support and defend the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution?" Every hand in the room went up, including the instructor's. Then he asked, "How many of you would fight, become a combatant against the government, to support and defend the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution?" Every hand in the room went up, including the instructor’s, and nobody was laughing. After class, I went down and asked the instructor if that result was common, and he replied, "As far as I know, in the 7-year history of this presentation, not a single 2nd Lieutenant has failed to raise their hand."

            Note the "fight, become a combatant against the government" phrase.

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