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View Diary: Heroes, heartbreak and the human spirit in Cleveland, Ohio (152 comments)

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  •  It is interesting how many people (20+ / 0-)

    in the media are spending time talking about how people in the neighborhood didn't figure this out like it is their fault.  Usually, the discussion starts on the heels of the man who rescued Barry and after he talked about barbecuing and listening to salsa with the suspect who owned the house.

    Clearly this abductor and likely also his brothers were master manipulators and that doesn't just go to what they were able to do to the young women they imprisoned - they also obviously were able to manipulate other people they encountered well enough to evade any interference with their horrible activities.  

    •  Apparently neighbors did report suspicions (16+ / 0-)

      There are reports now from various neighbors who called over the last couple of years, one seeing a naked woman on all fours in the back yard, another reporting other suspicions.  And the police did nothing, according to the neighbors - the city so far says no records of any reports.  I hate linking to Fox, but that's where I saw the report -

      •  Yes these reports have been coming out. (15+ / 0-)

        I was making the point that the media keeps saying that there was some disconnect and neighborhood failure, but it seems clear that people either didn't know or that when they thought something was amiss, they were ignored.

        The 911 conversation with the girl who escaped first was not a stellar showing in that the first instinct of the dispatcher was to promise a car when one became available instead of making the call for help a priority.

        •  my guess is also it's at least partly a rental (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boadicea, Creosote

          neighborhood with turnouver.

          Mr. Ramsey is a dishwasher, so my guess/bet is that he rents doesn't own a home.

          So the person who sees the naked woman outside isn't there to see the next thing and report it and make a stink because there is a pattern. If there is neighborhood turnover less people are there long enough to experience that house as having a pattern of something wrong going on there.

          Mr. Ramsey said he'd been there only a year.

          My own neighborhood is like this. City, and mix of renters and older  homeowners. My building is rental and also younger people. I can't officially pinpoint why but they really do not care much about the house or the neighborhood. They won't pick up a piece of trash on the porch if I leave it there all day (test), they'll step over it. They seem to be the kind who don't think of their neighbors. I find it hard to believe that if some woman were screaming help they'd respond.

          Mr. Ramsey even if he rents does give a shit. Unlike some.

    •  Maybe but I gotta say, my neighbors and I were (9+ / 0-)

      talking about this in the cul de sac today.

      Whatever happened to Gladys Cravitz? There are only 5 houses on my street and we all have 2 acres or so but I know all my neighbors and have been in all their houses, even while they weren't there.

      With permission of course, to water plants, take care of pets etc.

      I went into the one house where I don't even like the people, on a pretense, because I could hear them yelling at their nice little kid and I wanted to make sure he was allright.

      One neighbor asked how anothers girlfriend was because she doesn't see her car overnight anymore. (I don't get up early enough to notice.)

      Another neighbor calls me on way too regular of a basis to tell me I've left the overhead light on in my car.

      I think maybe these guys just didn't have nosy enough neighbors. And I think that is a fault of the neighbors, though certainly not the abductions and the womens fate.

      We kind of abdicate our responsibility to society when we don't actively engage around us. I used to be very concerned that Iraq and Iran didn't get along but didn't care about the neighborhood around me.

      I still care about Irag and Iran, I just think it's more important that I try to get along with my neighbors. Which includes knowing what they do and who they are.

      That may mean being a bit nosy at times and risking being a "buttinski". So be it.

      Three of us on the street has decided that the family of the little boy who gets yelled at (who now have another little boy) have crossed the line and we are reporting them to DHS. Let the experts decide if there is a problem, we at least have reported it.

      We've also offered help to the parents (declined) and tried to let the boy know in subtle and not so subtle ways that we SEE him.

      Another neighbor and I have asked for police patrol for a group of kids who ride by our house constantly with no helmets. (Those parents told us where to shove our concerns and any helmets we might have.) Maybe with a nudge from the police their kids will use helmets on their motorized and non motorized bikes.

      My handyman just told me of people 2 houses down from him who just got foreclosed on. The Sherriff came and put their belongings on the street. He was asking about the foreclosure process and I was asking about his neighbors.
      He didn't know them though they had lived there for years.

      I don't want to sound grandiose here but this is how peace, love, and understanding starts; house by house.

      I am one of the most introverted people I know and when I moved in here 10 years ago I went up and down the street and introduced myself. And I kept up the relationships.

      If I can do it anyone can.

      Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

      by ZenTrainer on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:50:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Zen Trainer, you are right--better to err on the (6+ / 0-)

        side of caution.

        Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

        by Mayfly on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:58:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The neighbors DID call the police (7+ / 0-)

        Several times, as more reports have come out - and the police either ignored them or did a cursory knock on the door to no response and left.  This is not a failure of the neighbors, imo.

      •  A valid point. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JayRaye, ZenTrainer, joynow, Avila

        Social isolation is a normal feature of modern society, and it's weird.   There's 7 other houses on my street and I  know the folks at only 3 of them.   The others, I don't even know their names or appearance, let alone know them personally.  For several years I've been thinking about trying to sponsor a block party, but there's always something else to take up the time and money.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Tue May 07, 2013 at 06:25:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  when neighbors turn over more frequently it's hard (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        when people move every few yrs, as renters in some locations tend to, they don't tend to invest as much in their neighbors or neighborhood.

        My street is half owners half rental. I rent and am in a six appt house. I"ve been here longer than everyone in my bld but one person, and it's only been four and a half yrs.

        The people I know are the homeowners. The renters turn over I try to get to know the people in my house they are not interested.

        I think Ramsey's neighborhood might be like mine. He's a dishwasher. I'd be surprised if he didn't rent. And the kidnapper sounds like he owned that house.

      •  Sounds like you may live in different (0+ / 0-)

        socio-economic circumstances than those in the neighborhood where this occurred.

        Don't underestimate what a difference that makes.

        If you took the greed out of Wall Street all you’d have left is pavement ~Robert Reich

        by k8dd8d on Thu May 09, 2013 at 08:42:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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