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View Diary: The Law of Unintended Consequences: Threaten the 2nd Amendment, Alienate the Military - Part II (187 comments)

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  •  the military coup of 2012 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    http://www.carlisle.army.mil/...

    discussses many of these issues.

    •  No such coups have occurred previously (14+ / 0-)

      Despite the dire warnings of the OP, there have been restrictions on the right to bear arms since the nation's founding, yet no military coups have occurred in the past, and I doubt they will occur in the future over the issue of the 2nd amendment.

      As one dkos poster recently pointed out, municipalities all over the country used to post signs at the town line explicitly prohibiting the carrying of guns within the town limits.  Yet despite this apparent restriction on the 2A, the military never launched a coup to correct those restrictions.

      Cannons were part of the arms used by revolutionary forces.  But civilian restrictions on the sale, ownership and use of cannons exist today and have existed for many many years.  Strangely, the military has never risen up to return to citizens the right to bear cannons.

      Then, there was the assault weapons ban of 1994, exactly the kind of thing to outrage people like Joshua Bolton, Cpl, USMC.  Five peaceful presidential elections have occurred since, without any military coups.

      Gun enthusiasts have been warning of all kinds of disaster any time regulations of guns are discussed publicly.  This should be seen as what it is: a kind of advertising by the gun industry to maintain their profits any way they can.    Mr. Range is simply repeating the ad copy of the gun industry, and we should accord his thesis with all the respect we give to ads for laundry detergent.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:04:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  point well taken (0+ / 0-)

        but at the same time, things are uglier and harder
        now.

        It would seem either we should bite the bullet on certain firearm tech or capacity or we should
        look at bullet deposits.

        of course most of this is somewhat irrelevant.

        About as many americans die from gun violence as
        car accidents.  

        The big picture stuff is the banks.

        •  Apparently, homicides have fallen by 39% ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DavidMS, FrankRose

          over the past 20 years, it's being reported today.

          Gun homicides have dropped 39 per cent in the United States since 1993, a pair of reports released today showed in an apparent setback to the campaign for tighter firearms controls.

          A study released Tuesday by the government's Bureau of Justice Statistics found that gun-related homicides dropped from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011.

          Another report by the private Pew Research Center found a similar decline by looking at the rate of gun homicides, which compares the number of killings to the size of the country's population.

          The surprising findings are likely to dampen calls for tighter firearms legislation in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre.

          It found that the number of gun homicides per 100,000 people fell from 7 per cent in 1993 to 3.6 percent in 2010, a drop of 49 percent.

          Both reports also found the rate of non-fatal crimes involving guns was also down by around 70 percent over that period.

          The trend in firearm-related homicides is part of a broad nationwide decline in violent crime over past two decades, including incidents not involving firearms.  

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Tue May 07, 2013 at 07:40:25 PM PDT

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          •  You are quite the scholar (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib, terrybuck

            You are absolutely correct: During the 1990s, gun injuries and gun deaths were MUCH higher than in recent years.  But that is only part of the picture.  During the aughties, gun sales (as determined by the then available measures) and gun injuries and gun deaths all dropped significantly lower, significantly lower than they are today.

            So my interpretation is that during democratic administrations (Clinton '92 - 2000, and Obama 08 - current), the gun industry warns that guns will be restricted, resulting in panicked purchases of guns by conservative gun enthusiasts.  Because gun sales are correlated with gun injuries and deaths, the increased sales are accompanied by marked increases in gun injuries.  During  a conservative administration (Bush 2000 - 2008) there is less talk of gun restrictions and gun sales are lower - resulting in reduced gun injuries.

            "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

            by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue May 07, 2013 at 08:25:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So, you have statistices showing ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ER Doc

              gun deaths were markedly lower during the Bush administration, and higher under Clinton and Obama?

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:26:46 PM PDT

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              •  Yes - data from the CDC n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

                by Hugh Jim Bissell on Wed May 08, 2013 at 03:32:14 AM PDT

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                •  Interesting... care to link to your source? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Neuroptimalian

                  From a new Justice Department report

                  The majority of the decline in firearm-related homicides occurred between 1993 and 1998. Since 1999, the number of firearm homicides increased from 10,828 to 12,791 in 2006 before declining to 11,101 in 2011.
                  While that doesn't exacting fit with the changes in administration, IIRC, Clinton was president from 1993-98, wasn't he? Then most of 1998-2006 was GWB? Admittedly, this is just for murders with guns, but I'm looking forward to your data on gun injuries.

                  -7.25, -6.26

                  We are men of action; lies do not become us.

                  by ER Doc on Wed May 08, 2013 at 06:55:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Different Things (0+ / 0-)

                    1) Gunshot injuries and deaths are different from firearm-related homicides.  Apples and oranges.  It is possible for these different things to move divergently.

                    2) Clinton was president from 1993 to 2000.  GW Bush was president from 2001 to 2008.

                    3) Depending on time and demands,  I may do a diary on the historical trends of gunshot injuries and deaths to better explain this findings.

                    4) The cdc data on gunshot injuries and deaths can be found at cdc.gov.

                    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

                    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:48:39 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  some suspicion that's it's leaded gas (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            alain2112

            once they ended leaded gas, crime started dropping.

            I will say, I see a lot more angry 50 somethings then 20 somethings in the city

            •  The phasing out of leaded gas began in the 70s. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              terrybuck

              Besides, other than people who work at gas stations, who spends any amount of time there being exposed to fumes?

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Tue May 07, 2013 at 10:33:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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