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View Diary: The Law of Unintended Consequences: Threaten the 2nd Amendment, Alienate the Military - Part II (187 comments)

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  •  Oh, not this again! (6+ / 0-)

    It's the Second Coming of Frank Rose!

    Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

    by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:38:30 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Shucks sir, I am just really concerned. (8+ / 0-)

      Golly gee, as one Democrat to another, I am just trying to save you from imminent danger, danger, danger.

      "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

      by ranger995 on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:40:59 PM PDT

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      •  And "Bill Clinton said in 1997..." (12+ / 0-)

        Even though Bill Clinton said just a few weeks ago that now is the right time for new gun legislation.

        Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

        by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:41:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wonder what new legislation he has in mind "now" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FrankRose

          In January it was

          Former President Bill Clinton warned a group of top Democratic donors at a private Saturday meeting not to underestimate the passions that gun control stirs among many Americans.

          “Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them,” Clinton said.

          “You have the power to really democratize America,” Clinton said. “You can do it on immigration reform, you can do it on these economic issues. You can do it on implementing the health care bill.”

          But, Clinton warned, the issue of guns has a special emotional resonance in many rural states — and simply dismissing pro-gun arguments is counterproductive.

          http://www.politico.com/...

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:00:29 PM PDT

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          •  The country is no longer willing to simply (7+ / 0-)

            pay the toll for our loose gun policies, without question.

            Request the diarist's permission to repost my prior comment - the parts of gun violence that some prefer not to address.

            What's the bottom line?
            The cost of gun violence is born by those who survive, those who must pick up the piece of shattered lives; that may be the person who survived a gunshot, or it may be those who survive the deceased.

            In much of our discussion of firearm death, we speak of gunshot victims in terms of a binary function - did they die on the spot or did they survive. But that is only because the finality of death makes the reporting of it much more timely (usually). The authorities must be called. Next of kin must be notified. Someone must determine the probable cause of death. Accident? Suicide? Homicide?

            Of course there are other factors that influence whether someone will survive a gunshot, such as access to state of the art medical care.

            A few weeks ago the Washington Post published an analysis of firearm suicides, a topic that is difficult for many people to talk about, and compared their findings side by side with homicide data.

            Gun deaths shaped by race in America
            By Dan Keating, Updated: March 22, 2013

            Gun deaths are shaped by race in America. Whites are far more likely to shoot themselves, and African Americans are far more likely to be shot by someone else.
            Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1 (Image 2)
            Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1
            The article nails one of the most confounding features of suicide, an aspect that many people find hard to understand, unless they've experienced the dynamic of suicide up close and personal themselves, or with someone they know well.
            The impulse to commit suicide has been described as a trance, and the speed and lethality of a gun make it harder to interrupt the trance. Attempts at suicide are more than 20 times as likely to be fatal when a gun is used.

            (Harvard School of Public Health, Case Fatality Ratio by Method of Self-Harm, United States, 2001).

            The article maps the origins of our national divide on gun safety and breaks out some key findings state-by-state, as gun deaths per 1 million people.
            Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3 (Image 4)
            Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3
            "Gun deaths in urban areas are much more likely to be homicides, while suicide is far and away the dominant form of gun death in rural areas. States with the most guns per capita, such as Montana and Wyoming, have the highest suicide rates; states with low gun ownership rates, such as Massachusetts and New York, have far fewer suicides per capita."
            For more detail, they created an interactive map, Gun suicide and homicide: statistics shaped by race. Note: All charts show age-adjusted rate per 1 million people unless noted.

            The summary captures why it is so hard for us to reach agreement about new legislation.

            Contrasting life experiences, whether from a family member’s suicide or the death of a relative in a homicide, drive the nation’s split over an essential element of the gun debate: Would fewer guns save lives? Survivors of homicide victims consistently tell pollsters that the answer is yes, but the response to suicide is different.
            “We have less empathy with those who take their own lives,” said Sean Joe, an expert on suicide and violence at the University of Michigan. “So we don’t have the same national outcry. The key argument for me is that increased access to firearms increases suicide and homicide.”
            Suicide frightens us. Sometimes, it makes us feel impotent, or guilty. We often wonder if there was some way we could have known, or something we could have done. Like homicide, the forward costs of attempted gun suicides are born by the survivors, who too often must also bear extra burdens of shame and regret.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:08:57 PM PDT

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            •  Different audience, different message I guess (0+ / 0-)

              Consumer Electronics Show vs private meeting with top donors.

              “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

              by Catte Nappe on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:14:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  He also described it as a toxic landmine. (0+ / 0-)

          Confidence, like to see that.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:37:00 PM PDT

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      •  The cliff note version is (3+ / 0-)

        I'm right and you'll see.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:02:21 PM PDT

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    •  Frank's Still here... (4+ / 0-)

      And just as relevant...

      /snark

      I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

      by detroitmechworks on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:04:17 PM PDT

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      •  Oh, I know he's here... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, terrybuck

        I just haven't heard anyone else trot out the "Bill Clinton said in 1997..." trope.

        Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

        by Bob Johnson on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:10:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  If only I could have come up with a 25 point (0+ / 0-)

        reason to support gun rights in Bingo form.

        Fucking. Loved. That. Diary.
        Hats off to ya.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:40:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let me fix that for you... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          If only I could have come up with a 25 point cheat sheet that has all my NRA talking points neatly wrapped up so I don't have to make them.

          /there ya go!

          I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

          by detroitmechworks on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:00:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I made one a while back. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FrankRose

          •  Good effort. (4+ / 0-)

            Execution needs a little work.

            See, there's no center square, so it kinda ruins the effect.  

            Repetition of a joke works better in odd numbers.  3, 5, or 7 are the usual Comedy archetypes.  Oh, and space em out, because UNEXPECTED tactics are the hallmark of comedy.

            Overall, I see where you were going with it, but unfortunately you delved into pure strawman with half of it, which can be funny... but works better if you can go for hyperbole.

            I would suggest, a joke about "If you can't hit your target with ONE bullet, you're a lousy shot."  If you're trying to mock magazine limits.

            For the ones about self defense, for example "Magic Police will save you!" would have been much funnier.

            Look forward to the improved version.  

            I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

            by detroitmechworks on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:25:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Rofl. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrankRose, DavidMS

              The anti-gun echo chamber here doesn't really deserve more than the effort I spent on that card.

              And there's no need for a free space - I just didn't feel like slogging through the time needed to expand that thing out to encompass just about all the different arguments the anti folks toss around... Which would have ended up with maybe a nine-square grid.

              And none of them would end up putting a dent in deaths, because you never address the fact that the fault lies in US ourselves.

              I just got done listening to an account of the german / russian front of ww2, where things were done on both sides that were in many ways worse than the concentration camps, where the single 2.5 month battle of stalingrad had more russian or german casualties then the usa sustained in the entire war. It wasn't the guns that caused that suffering, the fault lies in people. Taking away the guns didn't stop the suffering and death, it just changed the method from a shot to the head to getting sprayed with water to freeze on the ground, not to mention the effects of the 2-plus year long siege of leningrad where relatively few died of "gun violence" but instead starved and were eaten after death.

              The fault lies not with the contents of the hand, but with the contents of the heart.

              You can either zen meditate on that or call out a square on your own gunho card. Me, I've got some anime to watch. Ciao.

              •  This was contructive criticism. (2+ / 0-)

                But once again, the point was completely missed.

                A NINE square grid could have been very funny, if you had taken the effort to actually do more research than simply repeating the same joke with very minor modifications, as you did with your six.

                C'mon man!  Don't concede a valuable tool!  Humor works, if you're willing to put in a little work!

                I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

                by detroitmechworks on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:18:48 PM PDT

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            •  Your diary was definitely funny. (0+ / 0-)

              Just not for the reasons you think it was (hint: has something to do with listing 25 different points, while claiming "the same argument")
              Downright fucking hilarious as a matter of fact.

              Too bad you're no longer doing the 49 point card you claimed you were going to do.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Tue May 07, 2013 at 06:00:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  There's only one, baby (0+ / 0-)

      /puts on sunglasses
      /pops collar

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:35:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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