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View Diary: Update on Florida teen arrested for doing science while Black (268 comments)

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  •  aaargh! (8+ / 0-)

    I am a parent of two children, and I am enraged by this situation.

    It's very simple -- it is someone's job to supervise children.  If there is a science experiment, and chemicals are being mixed, IT IS THE JOB OF A TEACHER TO ASK WHAT CHEMICALS THEY ARE.    IF we are trying someone, then it should be a school principal and teacher, for failure to adequately supervise the students.   It is the TEACHER'S job to know which chemicals will go POP.  

    AND, I believe that a nice POP that doesn't harm anyone, helps every student to understand, much better than a demonstration on a chalkboard, WHY you don't mix those chemicals together at home, which is VERY educational.  

    This is a sleight of hand trick, where you can pick on the black kid, when in fact, there was a failure of supervision at this school, and there are some ADULTS who should be facing the music.   Although, no one was harmed, so I don't really think ANYONE should be facing the music.   Simply change the policies to require that kids submit their plans for chemical mixtures for review beforehand, and -- problem solved.  (mostly -- kids can still make a mistake and use the wrong thing).

    How can we expect kids to grow smart, when the adults in whose care they are placed in public schools are so D-U-M-B (smart, caring teachers excepted, TeacherKen.   ;0)?

    AND, if a person is still in the custody of public schools, THEY ARE NOT AN ADULT.  

    If a person is still in the custody of public schools, THEY ARE NOT AN ADULT.

    f a person is still in the custody of public schools, THEY ARE NOT AN ADULT.

    You can't have it both ways.  You can't claim they are kids while you are depriving them of their rights and their liberty, and then claim they are adults when you want to beat up on someone smaller than you.

    It is too hypocritical to claim kids must be supervised in public schools, and then, at the same time, claim they are adults.    Either they are, or they aren't.   If a teacher has custody of the person, that person is a CHILD.    If that person is not a child, then release that ADULT from public schools.

    And, I am so tired of having my kids trapped in schools run by snivelling cowards.   PEOPLE, a few drugs in the schools is not the end of the world.   TALK to your kids.   DON'T send in creepy undercover agents and run sting operations in the school hallway, and recruit eighth graders for marijuana sting without the parents consent and against the parent's wishes.    And don't freak out when the science experiment goes "pop", and think it's 9/11 all over again.  It's just, "pop".  No one got hurt.   GROW A PAIR!!!   Act like an ADULT.

    •  There wasn't a teacher there (11+ / 0-)

      it happened before school had begun, at 7:00 a.m.  It wasn't related to any school activity.  She knew it would blow up (that's the only reason to mix toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil).

      All that said,  "zero tolerance" rules are mindless substitutes for rational thinking.  She probably should have been suspended for a few days.  That's it.

      •  I know when I mix (7+ / 0-)

        red and blue paint, I get purple, but I can still be curious about how much, how purple, what it looks like on the palette vs. what it looks like on the canvas. Really, if you're trying to grow thinking minds, you can't say, think about something this way but not this way, this way, or this way. And just take my word for it.

        Get old and do lots of stuff in the process. Half of the fun is trying everything out. --Noddy

        by Debby on Fri May 10, 2013 at 07:54:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, try googling "toilet bowel cleaner bomb" (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kickemout, saluda, Rick Aucoin, DFWmom

          It's pretty clear what her objective was.  It's also pretty clear someone can get hurt doing it  (even high school chemistry students know that spraying hydrochloric acid around is not a great plan).

          Nothing wrong with experimenting.  I blew some stuff up myself.  But if I had done it on school property I would have known that some serious discipline was in store if I was caught.

          But the criminal charges are absurd.

          •  I believe her because I did it in my own basement (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Minnesota Deb, SilentBrook, DFWmom

            Like her, I did it safely enough not to get hurt, or to hurt anyone else, but was pretty surprised that it worked as, umm, vigorously as it did.

            Some discipline? Sure. If you don't know what will happen, there's a problem with trying it on school grounds. But I think you may be reading into her "objective" something that really wasn't there.

            Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
            Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

            by HudsonValleyMark on Fri May 10, 2013 at 08:52:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  A colonic seems easier (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SilentBrook, SadieSue

            then using a "bowel cleaner" bomb :-)

          •  Ginormous double standard ya got there. (5+ / 0-)

            You admit doing similar things yourself, give yourself a free pass, yet condemn this girl.

            All on the completely spurious grounds that things happened on school property.

            Kids' curiosity doesn't end at the school curb.

            It's pretty clear what her objective was.  
            No, that's you assuming she had an evil motivation.

            "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

            by nosleep4u on Fri May 10, 2013 at 09:18:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Wow, even when I was a kid we knew the difference (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Draxinum, Rick Aucoin

              between goofing off in the backyard making homemade explosives and doing it on the school grounds.  I hope you don't teach your kids that this is a "spurious distinction."

              And when did I say it was evil ????!!!  Her objective was to make a toilet bowl cleaner bomb.  It's hard to dispute that.  A stupid and possibly dangerous thing to do at school?  Yes, definitely.  But I make no moral judgement as to whether it was "evil".

              that's you assuming she had an evil motivation.
              This is the kind of flying leap into the vacuum of space that makes the comments here so amusing at times.
              •  Read the article (0+ / 0-)

                Read the article. Her goal was clearly not to make a "bomb" because she used a tiny bottle, which indicates that she was performing a small scale experiment, not trying to blow anything up, and the "explosion" was that the reaction released enough gas to pop the top of the bottle off. Nothing exploded.

                If that's a bomb, Eepy Bird (http://www.eepybird.com/) are terrorists!

                Yes, doing stuff on school grounds is stupid, so she should get yelled at. As others have proposed, making her do a report on the experiment would at least teach her something.

                Arresting her and branding her as a criminal, on the other hand, is just the administration being lazy cowards, and then getting defensive and doubling down on their over-reaction with some legalistic handwaving.

                If they had any brains at all, they would apologize and fix this before the city has to waste time and resources taking this moronic cast to trial.

                •  OK, I read it. (0+ / 0-)

                  Where does it say the bottle was "tiny"?  It doesn't.
                  Where does it say what kind of chemicals were used?  It doesn't.  Answer: hydrochloric acid and aluminum
                  Where do you get those chemicals?  Well, the hydrochloric acid is in toilet bowl cleaner.  Ever read the warning label on one of those bottles?

                  Google these five words together: toilet bowl cleaner aluminum foil

                  My search returns about 65,000 results.
                  The top 5 results are titled:
                  "Toilet Bowl Cleaner & Aluminum Foil Bomb :D - YouTube"
                  "Toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil explosion - YouTube"
                  "How to Make a Hydrogen Fireball from Aluminum Foil and Toilet ..."
                  "What makes aluminum foil and toilet bowl cleaner blow up"
                  "How to make an aluminum foil toilet bowl cleaner explosion"

                  Still think she didn't know what to expect???

                  The selective and false presentation of the facts by the diarist and some of the commenters troubles me.

                  I agree the consequences were grossly excessive.  No disagreement there.  Knowing what I know of the way kids are disciplined in 2013 (I have sons who are teenagers) I can say that what she did would almost certainly be grounds for suspension, probably for 3-5 days.  Maybe worse.  Expulsion seems excessive.  Criminal prosecution is insane.

      •  School had not begun, no one around, who (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil

        did she hurt or even come close to?

        At 7am, she wasn't looking for attention, so what ill intent could she have?

    •  A failure of supervision? (0+ / 0-)

      So, then, you're expecting every school to search backpacks every day, to ensure that students haven't brought dangerous materials from home?

      You wrote:

      If there is a science experiment, and chemicals are being mixed, IT IS THE JOB OF A TEACHER TO ASK WHAT CHEMICALS THEY ARE.    IF we are trying someone, then it should be a school principal and teacher, for failure to adequately supervise the students.   It is the TEACHER'S job to know which chemicals will go POP.  
      Gee, isn't that why most schools have rules against unsupervised experiments, bringing dangerous chemicals from home, et cetera?

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Fri May 10, 2013 at 09:39:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But why was the lab unlocked in the morning (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LSophia

        I cannot imagine leaving a working lab, unlocked in a school, with no adult present, where kids can come and go, and use said lab.

        I am not sure I buy she was making a bomb exactly. She wanted to see what would happen. It could be that even in smaller proportions the chemical reaction was more than she bargained for, and was bigger than she intended.

        •  She wasn't in a lab. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical, DFWmom, Kickemout

          It's been pointed out in the comments, since the diarist makes a point of NOT telling us this essential fact.

          It was also pointed out in his last diary about the same subject.

          She brought the components for the drano bomb t the school, assembled them, and set it off, on school property, at 7am.  

          This wasn't done in a science class, or in a science classroom.  It wasn't part of any sort of assignment, there was no teacher involved, in any way.  

          Just the drano bomb and the instructions from the ten thousand youtube video's showing dumb teens trying to blow their faces off.

          If the diarist was a bit more honest about actually informing people, no one would have to be mistaken about the actual facts of this case.

          The original "to be tried as an adult" by the local prosecuting atty. looks to be, as I suspected in the original diary's comments, to be going by the wayside and she's likely to get, as I suspected in the original diary's comments, some community service and that's about it.

          But the diarist apparently wants to stir everyone up again with another diary on the same subject without any real new info other than the prosecution is being reduced dramatically.

          But somehow that doesn't seem to be the gist of this diary...

          Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

          by Rick Aucoin on Fri May 10, 2013 at 08:21:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Odd, & sad, that few seem to care about the facts (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rick Aucoin

            Particularly the diarist.  But that might ruin the "Doing science while black" narrative.  You'd think that all these folks who are so worked up about the importance of science might recognize that science is fundamentally based on facts, not selective observations that only serve to reify a certain socio-political viewpoint.

            Or maybe they just prefer getting indignant to getting the facts straight.

            •  Confirmation bias. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Be Skeptical

              I learned a long time ago, and relearned the lesson again with the advent of the internet and social media, that any story that just perfectly fits my own biases needs to be looked at and evaluated with 10x the skepticism and credulity.

              This story is an excellent example of confirmation bias on the left.   The right has their own blind spots, I'd say more of them, but, that might be my own bias talking.  

              Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

              by Rick Aucoin on Sat May 11, 2013 at 01:21:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Why are you getting onto me about this? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil

            If the facts are wrong in this diary, then write your own diary on it.

            Make a complaint to the diarist, what have you.

            •  Because you said she was in a lab. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Be Skeptical

              She wasn't.

              And you'd know that, if the diarist had written a more honest accounting of what happened.

              But that would interfere with his Great Sense Of Outrage.

              Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

              by Rick Aucoin on Sat May 11, 2013 at 07:02:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh goodness (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tonedevil

                Show me, that she directly intended to kill and maim students and staff, or that she is a firebug.

                Otherwise this seems disproportionate.

                •  What seems disproportionate? (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't believe anyone has reported that she intended to cause anyone injury.

                  The diarist hasn't given much information at all on the case, just many many paragraphs of Great Sense Of Outrage, backed up by completely unproven assertions of racism.

                  Are you saying that it's disproportionate to expel students who set of explosives on school grounds?  The drano bomb is a pretty mild explosive, as these things go.  Certainly a huge step up from the M-80 firecrackers that got me and my friends in so much trouble when we were in school, but also nowhere near the sort of explosive that would cause property damage.

                  Certainly they can cause injury, though it seems in this case she avoided blowing her face off, thankfully.

                  But you think it's inappropriate to expel students who bring ingredients to school to assemble an explosive and set it off on school grounds?  Without it being a part of any sort of science class, supervised by any teacher, assigned by any teacher, it had absolutely nothing to do with any class or project the school assigned?

                  I don't think it's inappropriate for students who get caught doing such things to be expelled.  Setting off even mild explosives at school absolutely is the sort of thing a person should expect to be expelled for.

                  Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

                  by Rick Aucoin on Sat May 11, 2013 at 10:07:21 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't agree with expulsion, but facts matter (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Rick Aucoin

                    though the diarist, and now apparently GreenMother, and others, find that immaterial.  Why is it so hard to agree that the case should be assessed on the basis of facts?  In my view, a rational assessment of the facts would lead to the conclusion that it was a gross over-reaction to have her arrested.  A few days suspension seems about right.  But there is no need to twist things to make her case into something it isn't.  The facts should stand on their own.  

                    •  There's legitimate room to disagree there. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Be Skeptical

                      The degree of punishment a student should get for assembling and setting off a minor chemical/mechanical explosive like a drano bomb at school is certainly a point people can, and should, debate.

                      But the two diaries that this guy has written on the subject, focusing on his unproven allegation of racism and deliberately shading the events as a "science experiment" to the point where readers regularly come to believe this happened in a lab... well, there's just an agenda at play there.  That, and Righteous Indignation Primal Scream Therapy.

                      Who the hell wants to be part of a political movement that has as its most obvious feature politically correct prune lipped moral scolds and incessant guilt trips about how much we all suck?

                      by Rick Aucoin on Sat May 11, 2013 at 06:07:54 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

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