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View Diary: Books So Bad They're Good: Defenestrating the Daughter of Time (or, I'm just a gal in Kalamazoo) (90 comments)

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  •  There's such a wealth of badness here (11+ / 0-)

    The point of Goldberg's book, in the midst of the civil liberties violations of the Bush administration, was to render the word "fascism" meaningless.  Goldberg was the perfect person for the project, since his last name leads people to assume that he's Jewish and therefore wouldn't exploit the Holocaust for his own political purposes.  He isn't and he would.

    And Scott Lively's resurrection of the "Nazis were gay" canard is a favorite trope among professional homophobes.  Nazis bad, gay bad, therefore Nazis are gay or gays are Nazis or something.  Hitler was friends with Roehm, so that "proves" he was gay by osmosis, right?  Brietbart's site just dredged this one up yet again this week.

    I'm waiting for the book that says Nazis were Muslims.  You know it's bound to happen.

    I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death; I am not on his payroll. - Edna St. Vincent Millay

    by Tara the Antisocial Social Worker on Sat May 11, 2013 at 08:06:30 PM PDT

    •  Yep Rebranding "Fascism" To Make It Meaningless (5+ / 0-)

      If it weren't for the Holocaust, there would be a national Fascist party here in the US.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Sat May 11, 2013 at 11:47:54 PM PDT

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      •  There actually was a Nazi group here pre-war (5+ / 0-)

        They were called the German-American Bund, and they were pretty strong in the Yorkville section of Manhattan until around 1940-1941.  They'd petered out by the time of Pearl Harbor, but not before they'd managed to get on the Mayor's wrong side by, I kid you not, threatening the writers and artists at Timely Comics for having the audacity to print this comic mocking Hitler.  LaGuardia had the police inform them that this was America, not Germany, and we didn't do that here...and that was basically it.

        My grandmother might, and I do mean might have been pleased that Hitler put so many of her relatives back in Germany to work after the Depression, but I have no way of confirming this since she died when I was ten.  She had no problem growing food for the Allies on her farm, and at least two of her sons went proudly into the Army, so if she was somewhat sympathetic she changed her mind pretty quickly when war actually came.

        •  An interesting historical fact of fascism (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest

          Is that there were some Jewish fascists in the 1920s. I was surprised when I discovered that. I can't name names at this moment, but this was before Hitler added the anti-semitic element to fascism, & they were attracted to Mussolini's original version.

          Mussolini's version was much closer -- if not identical -- to Republican ideology under George W. Bush / Dick Cheney, which was pro-business & didn' t have an overt racial element. (Well, except for when it came to certain uppity African countries inhabited by non-whites.) "Fascism" referred to the fasces carried by ancient Roman officials, thus implying they were for "law & order".

          •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest

            the fasces was the symbol of the supremacy of State power over the individual. Hence the totalitarian character of Fascism.

            Nothing human is alien to me.

            by WB Reeves on Sun May 12, 2013 at 12:53:42 PM PDT

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            •  actually, the fasces referred to the committees (0+ / 0-)

              of elite capitalists -- the representatives of the corporations -- who were the fists in the gloves of l'estato corporativo.

              or so i've read.

              think: Dick Cheney's energy policy commission.

              To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

              by UntimelyRippd on Tue May 14, 2013 at 06:15:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The fasces is a bundle of sticks (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RiveroftheWest

                bound around an axe. It is a symbol dating to before the Roman Republic, predating Fascism and corporatism. It has historically represented the unity and supreme power of the state. For these reasons it was appropriated by Mussolini for his own purposes. It has been used in the official symbolism of many countries, including the US.

                Sorry if I came across as sniffy.

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:00:17 PM PDT

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                •  sigh. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RiveroftheWest

                  yes, of course Mussolini took the Fasces from the Romans.

                  we weren't talking about that -- we were talking about what he claimed it represented, about the explicit symbology he asserted when he named Fascism.

                  i might be misinformed, but I can't actually confirm it one way or another -- i've found at least three conflicting accounts, one of which notes that the term already had currency as the name of a left-wing party (where the "fascio" was the party itself -- the group of people).

                  if someone can produce an authoritative statement in Mussolini's words as to why he chose the symbol and the name, that would be great, but for the most part all i get is a sort of "everyone knows" authority.

                  To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

                  by UntimelyRippd on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:41:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Not all that surprising (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest, Ellid

            Antisemitism wasn't really important to Mussolini- most of his policies against Jews were enacted under German pressure.  It's also true that the earliest versions of the Fascist platforms, and to a lesser degree the Nazi platform, contained some progressive elements, which conservatives never tire of pointing out.  They also don't tire of pointing out that when Fascists came to power, they didn't implement the progressive elements of their platforms in either Germany or Italy - since that is a fact they never mention.

    •  Well, they did declare the Sioux honorary Aryans (4+ / 0-)

      A prominent Nazi had a Sioux grandmother, so they sorta had to.

      As for Goldberg, he's a nasty little piece of work, and I would love to lock him in a room with a bunch of World War II veterans and Holocaust survivors for about two hours....

      And as for Scott Lively, a local liberal radio host occasionally has him as a guest and just lets him babble.  It's done more to wreck his reputation than anything possibly could.

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