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  •  Obama's drones did, and do, kill civilians (0+ / 0-)

    It certainly wasn't, and isn't, intentional killing so I wouldn't call it "murder." Whether or not that makes him an 'evil monster' or a 'mass murderer' is up to you. In any event, Greenwald himself calls Obama neither of those things.

    It remains the case that, contra your original point, Greenwald never endorsed, hitched his wagon to, or otherwise supported Ron Paul's candidacy as a whole.

    "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

    by TealTerror on Sun May 12, 2013 at 01:34:18 PM PDT

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    •  You're arguing about the parsing of words. (0+ / 0-)

      if someone repeatedly lists the horrors someone is responsible for (the activities of Obama's military being a popular Greenwald topic) , somehow I don't think it's much of stretch to assume that the writer believes the person being described is evil without his having to use the exact word, particularly when he uses words like slaughter to describe those horrors.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

      by richardak on Sun May 12, 2013 at 01:51:55 PM PDT

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      •  There is a very big difference (0+ / 0-)

        Between believing someone engages in evil actions and believing someone is personally evil. I believe Obama engages in evil actions, but I don't believe he himself is evil because almost anyone else in his position would probably do the same thing. The evil lies in the system, not in the person.

        "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

        by TealTerror on Sun May 12, 2013 at 01:57:27 PM PDT

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        •  The system or Obama? Greenwald himself... (0+ / 0-)

          obviously holds the latter personally responsible, given what he's written. He's not saying "the system" slaughtered children. He's saying Obama did.

          The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

          by richardak on Sun May 12, 2013 at 02:21:20 PM PDT

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          •  Again, there's a difference between responsiblity (0+ / 0-)

            and being personally evil. Can you really not see the difference between these two views?

            (a) Obama has engaged in evil actions and is responsible for them.
            (b) Obama is an evil monster.

            Plenty of good, moral people have engaged in evil actions. Obama's not the first and won't be the last.

            "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

            by TealTerror on Sun May 12, 2013 at 02:27:23 PM PDT

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            •  Tell that to Greenwald. (0+ / 0-)

              I don't see him making that distinction.

              The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

              by richardak on Sun May 12, 2013 at 02:42:31 PM PDT

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              •  I still await a quote (0+ / 0-)

                where Greenwald says Obama is personally evil.

                "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

                by TealTerror on Sun May 12, 2013 at 03:16:26 PM PDT

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                •  Obama is the slaughterer of children (0+ / 0-)

                  Beyond evil, what other possible word would you use to describe such a person?

                  Do you think that Greenwald would use such rhetoric if his message was "sometimes good people have to do bad things if they are a leader"?  Can you point to any article where Greenwald has written such an apologetic with respect to Obama?

                  Of course, Greenwald has indeed used the "evil" word. Quoting your own quote from a few comments back...

                  Barack Obama — advocates views on these issues (indeed, has taken action on these issues) that liberals and progressives have long claimed to find repellent, even evil.
                  Your response to this I guess would be along the lines of "but he's not saying that he thinks that Obama is evil but that progressives might or should", however that's in the same article using the word slaughter in reference to Obama.

                  Quite frankly, one of the reasons I have no respect for Greenwald is his weaselly style of writing, where he tries to frames things in such a way as to try and make it look like he is straddling a fence when his harsh attacks make it clear that he actually isn't.

                  The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

                  by richardak on Sun May 12, 2013 at 04:18:03 PM PDT

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                  •  Most American Presidents (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BradyB

                    slaughtered children. It is actually irrelevant whether they were personally good or evil. I don't get why you're so hung up on this.

                    Do you think that Greenwald would use such rhetoric if his message was "sometimes good people have to do bad things if they are a leader"?
                    That's not what I said. I said that the system itself--that being the American Presidency--is inherently evil (in some ways) and that literally anyone who occupied the office would commit evil acts. Since Greenwald has said several times he doesn't think electoral politics by itself will solve the problem, I wouldn't be surprised if he believes this too.
                    Your response to this I guess would be along the lines of "but he's not saying that he thinks that Obama is evil but that progressives might or should",
                    No, my response is that he only said Obama advocates evil views, not that the President himself is evil.

                    How many times must I say that there's a difference between saying someone does or advocates evil things, and saying someone is personally evil? There are plenty of reasons a good/non-evil person might do evil things. Greenwald doesn't have to list them every time he criticizes Obama's actions, even if it's harsh criticism, because the point is not why Obama does what he does, but the actions themselves.

                    From what I can see not knowing the man personally, the President appears to be a great husband and father, a good friend, and a generally stand-up guy I would enjoy being around. Many of his actions as President are good, but many are evil. If you're offended that Greenwald criticizes his evil actions using harsh language, maybe politics isn't for you.

                    Quite frankly, one of the reasons I have no respect for Greenwald is his weaselly style of writing, where he tries to frames things in such a way as to try and make it look like he is straddling a fence when his harsh attacks make it clear that he actually isn't.
                    Greenwald is a radical. He doesn't try to hide it. He criticizes everyone. So I'm not sure what you're saying here.

                    The "funny" thing is, his articles on Obama are actually relatively light on the personal attacks (for him). If you want to see him go after people he genuinely despises, skim through this sometime. Trust me, as a long-time follower of Greenwald, he never hesitates to go for the personal attack (not one of his positive qualities)--so if he sticks to criticizing Obama's actions and not the person himself, that really does tell you something.

                    "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

                    by TealTerror on Sun May 12, 2013 at 06:08:14 PM PDT

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                    •  Hooo-boy...... (0+ / 0-)
                      No, my response is that he only said Obama advocates evil views, not that the President himself is evil.
                      There's nothing left to do now but shake my head.

                      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

                      by richardak on Sun May 12, 2013 at 06:33:16 PM PDT

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                      •  I think austerity is evil (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        BradyB

                        It causes enormous amounts of suffering. I assume you agree. Do you think, then, that everyone who advocates for austerity is an evil person?

                        "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

                        by TealTerror on Sun May 12, 2013 at 07:27:13 PM PDT

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