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View Diary: GunFAIL XVIII (82 comments)

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  •  Thanks for doing this discouraging compilation . (25+ / 0-)

    Do you think that the listings you make could be sold to various media outlets, possibly to newspapers, posted on government websites?  Since it is illegal, thanks to the NRA's lobbying, for governments to collect gun violence reports for study we should be publicizing your reports as widely as possible.  How about a daily feature on Google News, for instance.

    I enjoy listening to your radio broadcasts as well.

    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe it." Neil deGrasse Tyson

    by pvasileff on Fri May 17, 2013 at 07:38:44 PM PDT

    •  I suppose it could be. (3+ / 0-)

      But right now, it's just taken. That's OK, though. That's the idea.

      •  question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DefendOurConstitution

        I am and always will be a proud liberal and want to be more of an activist for economic justice against corporate domination of the world.

        but I've decided I had to own a gun because of the economy and the desperate people that can spawn and so that I have a chance to protect my family if someone armed with a gun invades our home.  if I didn't have a little boy, I would probably wing it like I have all my life before that without a gun.

        so I am a hesitant gun owner wanting to protect my child.  I got a safe for the gun.  I know that I may not be able to get to the gun in a home invasion.

        my question is:  while the idiots who leave guns lying around deserve derision, should finding out about gun owning neighbors be so important?  isn't that an invasion of privacy?

        also, isn't it legitimate to be able to be armed similarly as the bad guys to have a chance at defending yourself and your family?

        I just don't understand why we can't show just the basic respect for folks that aren't obnoxious gun owners and who own guns for protection (yes I know the statistics about accidents vs invasions)?

        •  You have every right to own your gun, but (7+ / 0-)

          you should also be subjected to regulations that make sure you truly know how to use/keep it safely, that you will not harm others, and that you're held responsible for any damage done by/with your gun.

          FWIW having a gun in a house with kids is always endangering the kids.  My dad kept his gun locked away, but I always managed to get a hold of it by finding his hidden spare key - and I played with the loaded 9mm pistol a lot, but fortunately I never got hurt or hurt others (more luck than anything).

          Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

          by DefendOurConstitution on Sat May 18, 2013 at 03:20:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  agree (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            laurnj, DefendOurConstitution

            "you should also be subjected to regulations that make sure you truly know how to use/keep it safely, that you will not harm others, and that you're held responsible for any damage done by/with your gun."

            agree with all of that and I worry incessantly about when my son gets older whether to keep it or not.  for now, I am training with my ex military friend (liberatarian type by the way who i'm trying to educate on the oligarcy)...

            there have been some repeated, devastating, frightening home invasions in my area that would make even the most anti-weapon person think twice about their stance.  one couple was permanently maimed but managed to survive.  in the past, there was usually some drug connection or such.  since the recession, it's just random usually, few drug connections.  people have a right to defend themselves....but like you said, not when their defense techniques puts people around them more in danger.  we need more gun control to that end.

            thanks for a less strident comment compared to the other guy.

        •  Also, look at this comment that explains the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib, Glen The Plumber

          odds for your loved one whether you have a gun at home or not. h/t joanmar

          Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

          by DefendOurConstitution on Sat May 18, 2013 at 04:55:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Statistics, killing machine owner. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          Your son is MORE in danger, because you chose to bring a killing machine into your home.

          Good job.

          •  aren't knives killing machines (0+ / 0-)

            and cars... aren't cars the #1 killer every year?  

            anyhow, I specifically mentioned that I know about the statistics and that increase in chance of accidental death seemed worth the risk compared to being at the mercy of a home invader, however remote the chances of being a target. nobody likes to be helpless.  there have been some dramatic home invasions in my area the past couple years.  can you blame people wanting to be able to defend themselves?

            also, I notice there's not many statistics cited about the number of home invasions and assaults prevented by bad guys being worried about homeowner guns.

            so all the strident judgementalism never takes that into account.  but again, I recommend this diary series because the idiots who leave guns lying around deserve derision.  responsible gun owners doing everything in their power to secure their weapons and to train in their use shouldn't be mocked.  neighbors shouldn't have their privacy invaded.  they should be forced into safety courses and forced to own safes.  

            whether you realize it or not, YOU benefit from the security your gun owning neighbors provide you.

            •  I think you're making a lot of assumptions. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber, laurnj, Maple Jenny

              And many of them may not be valid.

              As you said upthread, you might not be able to get to your gun in time in the event of a home invasion.  So I think you really have to ask yourself whether having it is in fact making you any safer or whether it's just making you feel safer.  For example, I'm going to assume that many home invasions occur at night.  Would you be able to reach your gun in time if you were awakened out of a sound sleep by an intruder?  Assuming you can, are you willing to use the gun given that you have a child in the house?

              You also appear to be assuming that criminals choose their home invasion targets based upon whether or not someone in the household is armed.  As a lawyer with some familiarity with criminal cases, I tend to doubt this.  In fact, since guns are a very marketable and commonly stolen commodity, if it's known that you have one, you might be inviting just as much trouble as you think you're avoiding.

              As for the privacy issue, I think you need to consider the rights of people who may not want to be around guns or may not want their children to be around guns.  If your child has a playmate who comes over to your house, don't you think that child's parents have a right to know that you have a gun in the house so that they can make an informed decision about whether they're willing to allow him/her to visit your home?  I know you have a gun safe, but accidents do happen, and as another user has pointed out, children often manage to get into things they shouldn't.  In other words, there are other people who have interests to which your desire for privacy ought to yield.

              There are also other security measures you can take.  Bars on the windows can help, as can an alarm system.  Neither of those things presents the safety concerns a firearm does.

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Sat May 18, 2013 at 08:19:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  You won't want to know? (0+ / 0-)

          You won't want to know whether your neighbors are "idiots who leave guns lying around" when your son goes over to play at their house?

          And is it really an invasion of privacy to ask your neighbors that, and let them decide whether they'll answer you?

          Why would that be an "invasion" of anything at all?

          They can tell you it's none of your business, and then you'll know whether or not your kids should be there. But nothing's been "invaded."

          Where did this idea that "privacy" is bound up in the right to bear arms come from, anyway? You wouldn't likely be asking this question in the same way if your neighbors decided they wanted to leave plutonium lying around. But if you're thinking about appeal to the Second Amendment as a point of differentiation here... why? What part of the Second Amendment mentions privacy?

          Is it legitimate to want to be armed as heavily as any potential bad guy who might invade your home? Sure. It's legitimate to want lots of things. But that's not the same thing as having a right to it. There's no clear reason of which I'm aware why that's a policy that absolutely has to be settled based on how big a monster people can individually imagine for themselves. After all, some people say they're afraid of the entire government invading their homes.

    •  For a really sad compilation go to Tom Begnal's (4+ / 0-)

      diary where he chronicles Another Day in the Gun Crazy U.S.A.

      Between David Waldman's GunFAIL and Tom Begnal's diaries we get a pretty complete picture of how bad the carnage is.

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Sat May 18, 2013 at 03:14:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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