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  •  Winning is relative (1+ / 0-)
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    sidnora

    And even if we win we might not like the outcome.  It may not feel like winning.

    For example, Gandhi and the movement he represented "won" by ejecting the British colonialists from India.

    But would he consider today's India/Pakistan relations a "win"?

    And how much does "freedom" vs. colonial rule mean to the  poorest Indian child?

    Nevertheless, we, like Gandhi, would even now have to claim a victory to be at the end of the nightmare that was daily life when George W. Bush was president.

    Just because the government keeps a record of real property transfers, it doesn't mean that the government wants to confiscate your home.

    by NCJan on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:27:39 PM PDT

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    •  It's true that (0+ / 0-)

      "freedom" doesn't necessarily fill a child's belly, but I bet there are, proportionally, fewer hungry kids there now than there were under the British. Still far, far too many, of course.

      Also, this is a more complex situation than the four-state formula can easily deal with (or that I want to get into in a comment). The post-colonial world everywhere deals with the aftereffects of colonialism. In some places they're horrific. Even with lots of room for improvement, I would posit that India has had one of the better outcomes. Just look at some of the regimes in sub-Saharan Africa.

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sun May 19, 2013 at 06:56:49 AM PDT

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      •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
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        sidnora

        That was my point.  I have done graduate study in the effects of colonialism.  I know the nuance.

        And that nuance cannot help but lead to the conclusion that even if problems still exist, we have to believe that every little baby step forward counts.

        Here, Republican extremists still have a lot of sway and way too much power considering their numbers.

        And Democrats aren't exactly the progressive dream that we may have imagined.

        But I still wake up every day relieved that I am not living the nightmare of the government of George W. Bush's America--secret arrests and prisons, any excuse for a war, cronyism within a deeply corrupt administration, mob rule and censorship, all leading to financial collapse.

        GWB was also waging a psychological war on his own people.  I am grateful that I no longer awaken every morning in fear wondering when the next terrorist attack will come and when the next war will follow in its wake.

        That's why I said victory is relative.

        Just because the government keeps a record of real property transfers, it doesn't mean that the government wants to confiscate your home.

        by NCJan on Mon May 20, 2013 at 06:35:04 AM PDT

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        •  OK, got it (1+ / 0-)
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          NCJan

          Forgive me if I didn't follow you completely, I had worked a 12 hour day before posting that reply. Should not blog when brain is fried.

          It's not a bad thing to be reminded every now and then that even though we are currently in a very frustrating position politically, and some of us (certainly me) wish progress were being made much more quickly, we aren't living the waking nightmare of the Bush years any more.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Tue May 21, 2013 at 04:19:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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