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View Diary: Koch Brothers Storing Oil Sands Waste on Bank of Detroit River (64 comments)

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  •  Koch, Koch, Koch, and coke (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weck, Gorette, blueoasis, KenBee
    One of the world’s largest dealers of petroleum coke is the Oxbow Corporation, which sells about 11 million tons of fuel-grade coke a year. It is owned by William I. Koch, a brother of David and Charles.
    So there's another Koch brother out there.

    About that pile of black stuff: You can't get a permit to burn the stuff in the United States, because it has a lot of sulfur in it, but it gets sent to Mexico and China and they burn it.  That means the carbon dioxide and sulfur oxides from burning it take a few months to drift back here.  Those sulfur oxides cause acid rain, and the carbon dioxide contributes to global warming.

    Two tiny bits of possible good news in that: The sulfur dioxide seems to come out of the air fairly quickly.  That means for the part that gets sent to China a good bit of the acid rain may fall into the Pacific before it gets to any land.  Also, while the sulfur oxides are still in the air they seem to favor dense cloud formation, which can blunt global warming because the clouds reflect more sunlight back into space.

    We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

    by david78209 on Sat May 18, 2013 at 08:21:30 AM PDT

    •  not a good thing to increase the acidity (6+ / 0-)

      of the ocean; I remember my burning eyes in Buffalo and Gary, and the "empty of fish" lakes in the Adirondack Mountains.  Didn't take long to damage that water, and as big as the Pacific is, I can't visualize a way to neutralize the acid before losing vital links in the food chain.

      If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever. & http://www.dailykos.com/blog/Okiciyap

      by weck on Sat May 18, 2013 at 08:37:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You said: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rei, goodpractice

      "You can't get a permit to burn the stuff in the United States, because it has a lot of sulfur in it, but it gets sent to Mexico and China and they burn it."

      This statement is completely false.   Nothing about the sulfur content of petroleum coke means that it cannot be allowed to be burned in a cement plant or in a coal fired power plant, provided that a source maintain compliance with any applicable sulfur dioxide emission limitation contained in an air discharge permit.   Finally, most petroleum coke produced in the United States is burned here and not sent for export to Chiina or Mexico.

      •  The article says (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Just Bob
        And what about the leftover coke? The Environmental Protection Agency will no longer allow any new licenses permitting the burning of petroleum coke in the United States. But D. Mark Routt, a staff energy consultant at KBC Advanced Technologies in Houston, said that overseas companies saw it as a cheap alternative to low-grade coal. In China, it is used to generate electricity, adding to that country’s air-quality problems. There is also strong demand from India and Latin America for American petroleum coke, where it mainly fuels cement-making kilns.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Sat May 18, 2013 at 09:32:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That article is just plain wrong (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rei, Catte Nappe, 6412093

          EPA never took any such action.

          You're not going to be able to find any EPA regulation which has the effect of that claimed statement in the article.

          •  Yeah, but one can't let a lot of pesky facts... (0+ / 0-)

            get in the way of a good environment-fear story here on DK.

            There are serious real environmental issues in the world to focus on.  This one is not worth the hyperbole being given to it.

            •  and which pesky fact are you disputing? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bob Love

              We all stand submissively before the global ATM machine network like trained chickens pecking the correct colored buttons to release our grains of corn. Joe Bageant

              by Zwoof on Sat May 18, 2013 at 10:18:01 AM PDT

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            •  also (0+ / 0-)

              I don't think the word "hyperbole" means what you think it means.

              We all stand submissively before the global ATM machine network like trained chickens pecking the correct colored buttons to release our grains of corn. Joe Bageant

              by Zwoof on Sat May 18, 2013 at 10:23:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Nevermind (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bob Love, blueoasis, PhilW

              I see that you are in favor of the Keystone pipeline and your father is an oil executive from your diary...
              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              We all stand submissively before the global ATM machine network like trained chickens pecking the correct colored buttons to release our grains of corn. Joe Bageant

              by Zwoof on Sat May 18, 2013 at 10:27:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  It's symbolic of the crap being done by Koch's. (0+ / 0-)

              They would not mind, literally, piling crap on all Democrats. You may see worse, but to do this in a city that already has so many problems it seems horrible and heartless.

              "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

              by Gorette on Sat May 18, 2013 at 02:40:08 PM PDT

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          •  The trick words are "new licenses." (0+ / 0-)

            The EPA's New Source Performance Standards has Greenhouse Gas limits that stifle development of a NEW coal or coke burning power plant unless it has GHG collection and sequestering systems, which are prohibitively expensive.

            Many observers say this EPA reg has killed any new coal or coke burning power plants. I say YEA!!

            Also, some of the refineries I look at along the Gulf, say they ship some of their coke to be burnt in Chinese power plants.  The US does export coke.

            So the NYT quotation is about 50% true.

            Orly, it isn't evidence just because you downloaded it from the internet.

            by 6412093 on Sat May 18, 2013 at 05:39:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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