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View Diary: Who wants fluoride in their beer? (148 comments)

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  •  So, human kind will wither away (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    True North, Horace Boothroyd III

    if these acts are voluntary? Of course not. Much more is accomplished when people are allowed to act voluntarily than by force.

    The human species has survived plagues, tooth decay, and many other threats before you came along with your forced mass medicating.

    The idea is that personal liberty is so precious and valuable and indispensable to the human right to live, that it must be guarded, lest it corrode away little by little until nothing is left.

    Can you prove forced medication is necessary?

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

    by ZhenRen on Sat May 18, 2013 at 05:30:18 PM PDT

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    •  How can fluoridation of the water supply (0+ / 0-)

      be voluntary, since it's not an action done by individuals? If you say it's up to the individual to opt in by getting fluoride treatment if they chose, I think that's preferable if it's made available to everyone regardless of income, and if water fluoridation provides no additional benefit. As of now, it doesn't seem that adequate dental care is available to everyone, so as long as that's the case, water supply fluoridation may be helpful.

      As for individual actions, voluntary is preferable, and certainly physical force or threats of legal consequences shouldn't be used if not necessary. I don't think we're at that point with vaccination. As of now, as far as I'm aware, it's a requirement upon entering public schools, with some hurdles if a parent wants to opt out.

      Of course I agree that personal liberty is valuable and something to be protected.

      As to your last question, I can't prove anything. All I can do is look at the evidence I see and weigh the pros and cons, express my views, and cast my vote along with other citizens when the opportunity arises.

      Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

      by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 05:43:11 PM PDT

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      •  Toothpaste has flouride. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        True North

        Hell, green tea, which I've ingested for years in ridiculously large quantities (I'm a caffeine addict)  has fluoride. There are many ways to voluntarily ingest the substance. But putting chemicals in the water supply, using it as a drug delivery system, is against the crucial principle of respecting personal liberty. It crosses a boundary, and should be discouraged.

        Do you draw any lines regarding encroachments on personal liberty?

        "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

        by ZhenRen on Sat May 18, 2013 at 05:49:13 PM PDT

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        •  I don't see a big movement. (0+ / 0-)

          to start adding a lot of medications to our water supplies. This is about one substance. Other chemicals are added for sanitation purposes, but I don't see anybody raising the issue of autonomy regarding that. The question is always one of weighing the costs and benefits.

          Of course I draw lines. The fact that they are not at the same places you would draw them doesn't mean they aren't there. I think the 4th Amendment to the Constitution is a good rule to limit encroachments, for example. But again, we might not interpret that the same way. For example, I don't think baggage scanners at airports should be prohibited on that basis, while others do. I think many aspects of the PATRIOT act and the FISA amendments went too far in infringing on liberty.

          Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:00:23 PM PDT

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          •  Good to know (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AaronInSanDiego

            that you at least have some concept of where you would draw a line.

            But this is how we start to erode personal rights to basic autonomy, inch by inch. It becomes easier and easier to dictate to people, right down to the kind of water they drink, how to live their personal lives.

            We need to revive the concept of respecting, as if sacrosanct, personal freedom and liberty.

            We are seeing on the national scale far too many new policies that allow spying, indefinite detention, even torture of prisoners, all under a democratic administration, and supported by the democratic party rank and file.

            It's time to push back and say no. I never thought I'd be worrying that it would be Democrats who would turn, little by little, to a police state, a security/surveillance state, and hints of moving, even if incrementally, towards totalitarianism. We're not there yet, but yes, Dems are scaring me.

            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

            by ZhenRen on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:20:21 PM PDT

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            •  I guess I don't have the same sort of (0+ / 0-)

              slippery-slope view of things. It's important to look at the trends, but I think too much can be made of that as well.

              Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

              by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:34:25 PM PDT

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