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View Diary: Who wants fluoride in their beer? (148 comments)

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  •  And democracy is not (0+ / 0-)

    authoritarianism, in my view.

    Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

    by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 05:46:09 PM PDT

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    •  Depends on how you define democracy (0+ / 0-)

      How do you define it? Is a bunch of extremely wealthy and privileged people who populate the majority of national elected offices, and who serve their own economic interests at the expense of most Americans, a democracy?

      Is it a democracy when one must be rich to successful run for office?

      Anyway, it is well known that civil rights and freedoms must be protected from majority rule, lest the majority decide, for example, to outlaw abortion. What then? This is why it is so important to not pass unnecessary laws which curtail personal freedom.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:01:44 PM PDT

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      •  First of all, I don't think that (0+ / 0-)

        one necessarily has to be rich to successfully run for office, although those who get elected are disproportionately wealthy. Yes it takes too much money, and I would prefer public campaign financing. Although that could be seen by some as an infringement on individual rights to financially not support campaigns they disagree with. However, as long as the elections are not fraudulent, voters are ultimately collectively responsible for these people getting elected, so yes I would say it is still a democracy.

        I agree with your last paragraph. But we won't always agree on what laws are necessary, and to what extent they curtail freedom.

        Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:10:39 PM PDT

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        •  Your chances of running for national office (2+ / 0-)

          are pretty slim if you aren't wealthy and very well connected to wealthy interests. Take a look at opensecrets.org for average net worth of the senate and the house, as well as cabinet level officers of the executive branch. Do you think that is coincidence? They are all, on average, very well off.

          Remember Durbin stating that the Senate is owned by the banking industry?

          Pattern recognition is useful. It would take more time than I'm willing to spend to lay out the ample evidence, but yes, our government is largely owned by wealthy interests. Why do you think we're doing nothing about global warming? Or peak oil? Or the coming water shortages? Or renewable energy? Or making education affordable? Or raising wages to livable, humane levels? Or giving everyone publicly funded and thus better and more affordable health care? Or ending the constant wars? Why were the wealthy bankers bailed out after the crime of gambling away the economy, but homeowners were left at the mercy of robo-signing of fraudulent foreclosure documents.Whey weren't the people bailed out instead? Why are students with student loan debt left to the mercy of the predator banking industry?

          Why don't the wealthy Democrats in office spend some of their political capital educating people?

          No, this isn't a functioning democracy. If you read the history, you would realize it was set up to curtail too much democracy. In the first election, only something like 6% were allowed to vote (exclude women, blacks, Indians, whites without property, and there weren't many left over to vote).

          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

          by ZhenRen on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:37:29 PM PDT

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          •  Point taken. (0+ / 0-)

            Not sure if this changes my views about individual liberty and fluoridation, but I am familiar with what your talking about here.

            Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

            by AaronInSanDiego on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:45:52 PM PDT

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