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View Diary: Another Day in the (Gun Crazy) U.S.A. (52 comments)

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  •  So....Chicago has some of the most draconian (0+ / 0-)

    gun laws in the USA.
    A 'vast majority' of Chicagoans 'never come in contact with guns'.........and Chicago's murder rate is over three times the national average.

    Boy, that gun control sure is effective.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Sun May 19, 2013 at 08:35:50 PM PDT

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    •  Frank, you're always late to the party. (7+ / 0-)

      Are you a bot? Your comments are pre-programmed.

      Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

      by Bob Johnson on Sun May 19, 2013 at 08:58:46 PM PDT

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    •  Wyoming has the highest firearms suicide rate (8+ / 0-)

      in the country, if not the world.  Boy, those lax gun regulations sure are effective.

      •  Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world & (0+ / 0-)

        they have draconian gun laws.

        But why argue?
        If you are frightened that you would commit suicide if you had a gun, then don't own one.
        And let everyone else make that same decision for themselves.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Sun May 19, 2013 at 09:12:51 PM PDT

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        •  That's a truly nasty comment, Frank. (9+ / 0-)

          You finally deliver an answer that's not pre-programmed and that's what you come up with.

          What a piece of work...

          Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

          by Bob Johnson on Sun May 19, 2013 at 09:28:42 PM PDT

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          •  How so? (0+ / 0-)

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Sun May 19, 2013 at 09:40:04 PM PDT

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            •  should have left out the second para, uneeded and (0+ / 0-)

              too close to the mental illness card.

              Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
              I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
              Emiliano Zapata

              by buddabelly on Sun May 19, 2013 at 09:47:23 PM PDT

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              •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

                Suicide is a personal choice, so is gun ownership.

                If one feels that a gun would lead to an unwanted suicide (which I find absurd: See Japan), then the answer is simple.
                Don't own one & let others make the same choice for themselves.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Sun May 19, 2013 at 09:51:29 PM PDT

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                •  Suicide is also irreversible drunken impulse, (3+ / 0-)

                  as was the case of someone I knew. Someone who should not have been allowed near a gun because he abused drugs and alcohol, had been in and out of rehabs. When he shot himself in the head he was so drunk and high that he wasn't capable of making a decision to cross the street in traffic. He was not capable of making a minor personal choice, and certainly not capable of making such a major choice as suicide.

                  “We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children” ― Chief Seattle

                  by SoCalSal on Sun May 19, 2013 at 10:46:42 PM PDT

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                •  Dear ignorant Frank.... (5+ / 0-)

                  Japan also has a cultural heritage that accepts and even celebrates suicide. Under certain circumstances, it is almost the expected thing to do. The Western Christian attitude toward "self-murder" is alien to Japanese culture.

                  You didn't know that? A gun nut ignorant about other people's culture. Why am I not surprised?

                  "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

                  by sagesource on Mon May 20, 2013 at 03:18:24 AM PDT

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          •  I hope you'll also chastise those who throw truly (0+ / 0-)

            nasty slurs against those of us who argue the pro gun position.  It is after all a legitimate position to take with anywhere between 30-40% of Dems being gun owners and it being a civil liberties issue and all.  Plus Heller and MacDonald have finally sealed it for the forseeable future.  

            Otherwise it's pretty hypocritical slamming Frank when there have recently been many actual accusations as well as regular insinuation as to the mental state of all gun owners. Not even getting into some of the truly interesting trolls who are long banned.  More from the gun control side btw and usually for being an enormous asshole repeatedly.

            There are a lot of Democratic gun owners including many kossaks I see the new group members on a regular basis.  You've seen the same vitriol from a few I have.  Sure there have been douches on the pro gun side here, but that is a anti side issue as it is now.

            Not only did an AWB not even get 40 votes, it would probably be unconstitutional under Heller as the firearms in question in an AWB are most certainly "in common use"  The AR-15 being the most popular rifle in the country since the ban ended with many more sold than any other model of rifle or pistol.  Lots of AKMs in common use also not to even begin with the extremely common hunting and plinking rifles that would have been swept into the banned category.

            Had the background check issue been handled differently, it could have passed as well as the gun trafficking (though that is already illegal in many ways) at the very least.  Magazine size was iffy but at least there was a possibility, until Feinstein introduced the AWB first and rallied the pro side to make those calls and write those letters.  Bloomberg's ads piss people off more than they help the anti gun side as most I've talked to from all over the spectrum think he should worry about New York and keep his nose out of Arizona's business.....

            I wonder why you never actually addressed the point of my first comment

            in a country of 350 million people there will be someone doing every possible stupid thing period....whether it be with a gun, a car, a beer bottle or their fists, stupid shit will happen and stupid people will do stupid things....
            Think of the stupidest most flat insane idea you can and odds are someone is doing just that right now.  We are a large country with a decently large population and contrary to somes apparent beliefs, crime rates have been falling like a stone for quite a while.  I like the tetra ethyl lead theory myself, that switching to unleaded has greatly reduced childhood lead exposure and as such there aren't the brain problems associated with lead including violence and impulse control,.

            Anyway, unfortunately people die ever day from some of the stupidest shit imaginable and negligent gunfire wounds are a small category and negligent deaths even rarer. And again, this rate has been dropping for years.

            I took a little look at stats for Phoenix and Chicago, I picked Phx as it's the closest in size being slightly under half the population of Chicago.  Yet Chicago has four times the murders and manslaughters, about 3.5 times  the violent crime combined, 3 times the aggravated assaults and over 4 times the robberies.....Too much adding to get the rates for the entire Phx and Chicago metro areas but from quick glances it seems Chi metro has about 2.5 times the population of Phx metro yet Phx is much larger sizewise which might help mitigate violence but we also have the insane brain frying heat, esp in Phx....the figures seem similar to PHX/CHI at a glance.

            One huge major difference, everyone not a prohibited possessor can legally carry here with almost no restrictions as long as you stay sober and don't do something felony stupid to get your rights pulled

            Chicago has one of the most restrictive regimes in the country when it comes to firearms with (at this point but not for long) no legal method of carry, long time refusal to issue new permits,  the ban on shooting ranges and gun stores, their attempt to get themselves exempted from Illinois' court ordered CCW system etc.....

            Here we issue a gun at birth, there never even see one (acc. to you)  yet you have almost 4 times our violent crime rate across the board........Thats interesting, We beat you against national average too though both are above the "norm" oh and no rape stats from Chi which would just skew it worse.....We even beat you at the state level.......

            Seems to me our gun laws might work better than yours.

            http://www.cityrating.com/...

            http://www.cityrating.com/...

            Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
            I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
            Emiliano Zapata

            by buddabelly on Sun May 19, 2013 at 10:50:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Be careful with those comparisons... (5+ / 0-)

              Someone might try a comparison with, say, Canada. Where you have to have a VERY good reason to be allowed to carry a pistol, and it's almost impossible unless your work requires one (security guards and so on).

              Our murder rates are a fraction of yours, and gun violence is almost entirely the prerogative of the criminal class (who are routinely sent to prison for playing with their lethal toys, even before they shoot anyone with them). Seems to me our gun laws do work better than yours. Very much better.

              But if you want to shoot each other in droves indulging a fetish, who am I to stop you?

              "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

              by sagesource on Mon May 20, 2013 at 03:25:33 AM PDT

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            •  Goddamned Heny Ford. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Smoh, lyvwyr101, Miggles

              If he hadn't invented the automobile, then the bad guys would have a much harder time driving to gun shows to buy weapons outside city limits.

              Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

              by Bob Johnson on Mon May 20, 2013 at 07:18:38 AM PDT

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              •  unbelievably ridiculous, and you have the gall (0+ / 0-)

                to ridicule others on this subject? I don't know what the hell Henry Ford and cars have to do with the gun laws in Phx vs Chi but I'm sure by basking in your brilliance it will appear to me eventually.

                BTW that's Tucson that requires b-ground cks on all gun show sales on city property, not in the city....

                 is it teh Joooz? is that what ol Hank is in there for? is it the reference to tetra ethyl lead and violent ideation? a well proven correlation btw, tell us oh snarkmaster what the hell is your point?

                Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                Emiliano Zapata

                by buddabelly on Mon May 20, 2013 at 07:58:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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