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View Diary: How Many Former NSA and FBI Counterterrorism Employees Will It Take For This Story To Reach The MSM? (140 comments)

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  •  So what do we do now? (4+ / 0-)

    Are there enough Americans who have grasped the horror, who are willing to fight to turn back this insane security culture?

    Or have we been pwned by the "security moms" once and for all?

    •  IMHO The Window To Do Anything (9+ / 0-)

      was shut when we granted telecom companies immunity. I think the only way this would stop is if you or me could sue AT&T, Verizon, or Comcast into the ground for giving the government access to my phone calls, email, and Internet history.

    •  Math (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      1000 people listening to 1000 calls a day would cover 1 million calls. That's a small fraction of the number of calls made each day. They probably have nowhere near 1000 people monitoring these calls. While I understand the concern, it's kind of like trying to find a bad grain of sand at the beach.

      I'm no philosopher, I am no poet, I'm just trying to help you out - Gomez (from the song Hamoa Beach)

      by jhecht on Mon May 20, 2013 at 01:24:37 PM PDT

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      •  Properly implemented search technology... (4+ / 0-)

        ...and advanced database design and implementation solves many/most/all of these problems.

        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

        by bobswern on Mon May 20, 2013 at 01:36:25 PM PDT

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        •  But there is no way to store all the calls (0+ / 0-)

          No way at all. There's just too many.

          Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

          by blue aardvark on Mon May 20, 2013 at 02:44:49 PM PDT

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          •  Please (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xynz, bobswern

            Are you snarking?

            They solved that technology problem a decade ago. They can capture it all in real time and store it.  

            The data center in Utah is the next piece -- Bluffdale, Utah.

            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Mon May 20, 2013 at 03:58:40 PM PDT

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          •  Proving that you are profoundly ignorant... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            ......about the technology involved.

            1 billion phone calls/day with an average time of 5 minutes (300 seconds) each. Using a 128 kbps codec (CD quality for evidentiary purposes), that gives us:

            10^9 * (3*10^2) *(16*10^3) = 4800TB/day

            2400 2TB HDDs Bulk purchased at $50/HDD/day, then it would cost the US Gov't about $120K/day to store every phone conversation in the US. That's a bit less than $50M/year in a National Security Budget that is (literally) thousands of times larger.

            In the Fox News Christian Nation, public schools won't teach sex education and evolution; instead they'll have an NRA sponsored Shots for Tots: Gunz in Schoolz program.

            by xynz on Mon May 20, 2013 at 07:28:19 PM PDT

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      •  It's not about monitoring real-time. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobswern, Yonkers Boy, GreenMother, AoT, xynz

        It's about building a database of communications, indexed by keywords and most particularly building webs of social connections.  Then if someone becomes a person of interest to intelligence, they can go back and review all that person's communications for years past along with all communications by anyone connected to them directly or maybe two or three degrees removed.

        The argument that is apparently being used to justify this as legal is that no human is seeing the bulk of what's captured.

        “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

        by jrooth on Mon May 20, 2013 at 02:06:47 PM PDT

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        •  Well, in the "Personal-Private Info" (PPI)... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          StrayCat, GreenMother, lostinamerica

          ...laws in this country, when it comes to matters such as pulling another's credit information, that line of thinking does NOT flush. If you pull the data, you own it. And, you MUST have legal authorization to do that BEFOREHAND. Otherwise, it's a violation of law and subject to a $10,000 fine PER OCCURRENCE. It's just too bad for us that our government doesn't give a flying f*ck about these types of things when THEY want to know things about in EVERYTHING.

          "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

          by bobswern on Mon May 20, 2013 at 02:39:11 PM PDT

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        •  Somehow, I think it has always been this way (0+ / 0-)

          as much as any government's technology would allow.  Seizing contraband illegally may mean no prosecution of the contraband possessor, but when does the government that illegally seized the contraband ever give it back?  Answer:  Never.  Just think of the law enforcement officer in the Midwest who ate those magic brownies and called the police, of all people, freaking out about dying when he was merely stoned.  Contraband.  Consumed.  This diary even pointed out the fact that the FBI may not use recorded phone calls in court, but it assists in knowing where to investigate.  All this recording is equivalent to drone informants, IMO.  Rather than fight it all, which is pointless, we must participate in our government, monitor what it does, and elect the most rational, logic-driven folks necessary to take care of government affairs. We must also create a system that is faster when it comes to deleting pointless laws that do nothing to better the welfare of society, like these inane "drug war" laws.  The Daily Kos community is part of this process, me thinks.  

          Mix the blood and make new people!

          by Yonkers Boy on Mon May 20, 2013 at 02:44:18 PM PDT

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          •  Actually... (0+ / 0-)

            ...In states with MMJ laws, several people have sued either the state cops or, in one memorable instance, the Dept of Homeland Security, and got their pot back.

            In most other states, the fact that the illegally confiscated material is still illegal means that they can't give it back to you.

          •  According to Binney (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            StrayCat, AoT, bobswern

            It hasn't always been this way.  And he designed and built some of these systems.  It all changed under Cheney.  Before that the agency would not collect domestic data without authorization.  

            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Mon May 20, 2013 at 04:01:18 PM PDT

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