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View Diary: 12-Year Old Girl Raped At Gunpoint By 3 Teen Boys Who Then Posted It On Facebook (95 comments)

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  •  Perhaps, but if the consequences (9+ / 0-)

    are not comprehensive enough, the commenter has an excellent point. 16-year-olds can drive. They are not "children." They have much more responsibility for their behavior than 8-year-olds, and should not be conflated with pre-adolescent children.

    Sexual assault is one of the highest recidivist crimes. It is critical to be certain that the children who are victims and potential victims be safe before these perps are released.

    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

    by rhetoricus on Wed May 22, 2013 at 01:14:33 PM PDT

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    •  Yet, somehow I doubt they will learn to be kinder (4+ / 0-)

      and gentler in a jail full of adult men.

      And while 16 year olds can drive they are in no way on the same developmental level as an adult.

      Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

      by ZenTrainer on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:26:40 PM PDT

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      •  I think they knew that it was rape (4+ / 0-)

        Even sixteen tear olds can distinguish rape at gunpoint from consensual sex.

        Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

        Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

        by Kitsap River on Wed May 22, 2013 at 04:05:43 PM PDT

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        •  I didn't say they didn't know it was rape. (3+ / 0-)

          I sadi they weren't on the same developmental level as adults.

          So rape and consensual sex and all the ramifications involved are understood in a different way from the way most adults understand.

          And while I think time and aging will improve their understanding, I think the odds of that happening in an adult prison for men are low.

          Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

          by ZenTrainer on Wed May 22, 2013 at 04:10:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Okay, I have a problem with this "they are just (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Texas Lefty, auron renouille, LSophia

        children" pitch.

        The fact that they are two years younger than the legal definition of an adult does not mean that they should be totally absolved of responsibility here.

        A four year old cannot be expected to comprehend right from wrong. If a 16 year old can't be expected to do it, in terms of forcing a 12 year old to have sex, we are going way too far in absolving kids of responsibility and both training and expecting them to treat others decently.

        Henry the V was deemed responsible enough to lead men into battle when he was 15. In many wars, boys as young as 12 served in both armies and navies, in harm's way and fought well  and bravely. I'm not saying this is right, I'm not saying we should do this. I'm saying that a thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen year old is capable of doing this, and is not some baby unable to comprehend even the concept of decent behavior.  An increasing sense of responsibility is something that should be expected of youngsters as they grow, not something that is assumed to be totally absent at 17 years, 11 months, and totally present a month later.  

        Kids, properly trained and taught, can handle a lot more responsibility than we ever seem to ask them for these days. And I mean both boys and girls.

        These boys are not six year olds. They have eyes to see, brains to understand with. They just didn't give a damn.  Blame the parents, if you want, blame society if you want, but save some blame for  them.  

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Wed May 22, 2013 at 05:46:41 PM PDT

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        •  I have a lot of blame for them. And I would hold a (2+ / 0-)

          4 year old responsible for some of their actions as well. But as someone with a degree in child development I am telling you there is a big difference between the way an adult brain works and the way a teenagers does.

          Science backs that up. 18 years olds aren't all that grown up either. Full development doesn't take place till in the 20's (despite the practices of the 1400's.)

          Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

          by ZenTrainer on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:51:56 PM PDT

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          •  I agree with this. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ZenTrainer, Deadicated Marxist

            I was such a creep as a teen in lots of ways. When I was in my mid-20's I was like: "what the HELL was that all about? What the bloody hell was I thinking?"

            If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

            by rhetoricus on Wed May 22, 2013 at 09:50:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  A lot was about drugs, hormones specifically. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rhetoricus

              Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

              by ZenTrainer on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:32:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh, no. Don't go there. Just don't go there. (0+ / 0-)

                "Boys will be boys." One of the most loathesome phrases ever coined. And an insult to all decent kids everywhere.

                A boy feels the urge, he should fucking CONTROL IT!

                Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

                by Sirenus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 07:46:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I didn't say boys will be boys and I didn't (0+ / 0-)

                  mention testosterone! As Dr. Drew says, all kids act a little crazy because they are on drugs. They have wild mood swings, emotional outburst and all kinds of nuttiness.

                  This isn't about having an "urge" anymore than rape is about sex.

                  Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

                  by ZenTrainer on Fri May 24, 2013 at 06:21:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You said..... (0+ / 0-)

                    "A lot was about drugs, hormones specifically"

                    I think most people would see that as being about the urge to have sex.

                    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

                    by Sirenus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:20:40 PM PDT

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                    •  I guess...if they didn't know anything about (0+ / 0-)

                      biology or rape for that matter.

                      Rape is about violence not sex. And reproductive hormones are not the only ones teens are bombarded with.

                      Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

                      by ZenTrainer on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:59:54 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  The question is not "Are they all grown up?" (0+ / 0-)

            The question is "Are they grown up enough to have the capability to understand that forcibly raping a 12 year old girl is a cruel, mean, wrong thing to do?"

            And a sixteen year old is old enough to have that capability. We're not asking them to decide a complicated question of legality here. They have that capability. To think otherwise is to insult every decent-behaving kid out there.

            Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

            by Sirenus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:27:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The manner of lockup and treatment (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Oh Mary Oh, ZenTrainer

        is one question. Whether they should be loose on the streets soon to rape more kids is another.

        If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

        by rhetoricus on Wed May 22, 2013 at 09:48:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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