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  •  And we don't need the spoiled upper-middle class (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rabel, bewild, demjim

    assholes with IT degrees from developing nations - we need the people whose parents didn't exploit the poor.

    Give me 100,000 people a year from the farms of India and garment districts of Pakistan and the factories of Indonesia, and let them train here if we need more IT workers.  Let them come on a normal, standard "green card", that allows them to pick their career and allows them to shop their labor freely.

    Right now, H1-B Visas are just a class filter to make sure on the scum who are just fine with forcing 30-50% of any given population into poverty are getting into this country.

    We've got enough of those people.

    "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

    by JesseCW on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:52:56 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  on = only (0+ / 0-)

      "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

      by JesseCW on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:54:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  IT workers are not upper middle class (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FG, raptavio

      IT workers are not part of the wealthy.  the wealthy folks are the ones who own the companies where the IT people work.

      You would be surprised at how little these people earn, how much salaries have already flattened and sunk.

      I'm shocked you would cheer for financial misfortune to fall on middle class workers.

      "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

      by Betty Pinson on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:05:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A lot those on H1-B Visas don't earn shit here (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        doingbusinessas

        but then, they don't plan to live here.  They want 4-5 years working in the US because it will make them a manager when they move back home.

        I'll take the huddled masses, yearning to breathe free rather than the spoiled offspring of the people who made them huddle in the first damn place.

        "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

        by JesseCW on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:12:08 AM PDT

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        •  Oh yeah, spoiled (0+ / 0-)

          I work every day right now with Indian IT staff from a partner company.  They are in Bangalore.  They work 12 hours a day, routinely working until midnight.  They are configuring a datacenter in Europe that uses my company's products.  That is the reality of international competition.  They are not "spoiled".  They go to work past people defecating on the side of the road in 110 degree heat.  They are motivated.  

        •  Facts? (0+ / 0-)

          Show me a good programmer on an H1B who is being abused, and I'll show you a programmer who will be recruited into another US company who will be more than glad to sponsor the H1B.  Right now, at least, there is a shortage of qualified programmers and IT personnel.

          We have 20 sys admins where I work.  25% of the IT staff hired do not cut it.  They don't get stuff done.  They miss deadlines.  They show no interest in their jobs.  The do not reach out and problem solve.  Or, they are just not that bright and can't do the work.  Anyone, regardless of ethnicity, immigration status, age, sex, whatever who can do the job is extremely valued.

          Sorry, it is a very competitive world.  We need to make places for the people who can't do high-tech jobs.    Not everyone can be a good high-tech worker.

          The people I feel little sympathy for are the college graduates who did not prepare themselves to earn money, and now are shocked because they are not employable.  

    •  and my kids are iT workers (0+ / 0-)

      trying to pay off student loans.  We barely get by and we certainly have never exploited anyone.

      "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

      by Betty Pinson on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:06:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think JesseCW means... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rabel, JesseCW, sviscusi

        ...that the foreign IT workers who get in on H1-B visas are part of the upper class in their home country.

        •  No, i've seen his posts on this issue before (0+ / 0-)

          He thinks US IT workers are wealthy and don't deserve protection from the dumping of cheap foreign labor in the US market.

          "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

          by Betty Pinson on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:13:26 AM PDT

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          •  Not this time (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW, ManhattanMan

            "... with IT degrees from developing nations"

            I'm not looking up his posting history but in this case you are clearly wrong. JesseCW is obviously talking about rich, spoiled, Indians coming over here and taking our IT jobs. My experience with Indian IT workers is similar to his although certainly not all of the Indians I've worked with are spoiled and "rich" in India means something very different than it does here.

            My experience is that these Indian workers are not any smarter or have any greater work ethic than US workers.

            [Terrorists] are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. --Digby

            by rabel on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:18:54 AM PDT

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          •  You've got that pretty inverted. (0+ / 0-)

            Although it's true that I generally hold people who's mumsy and poppsy paid their way through school in pretty low regard, it's got nothing to do with any specific grudge against US trained IT workers in the specific.

            The biggest assholes being brought into the country through H1-B Visas tend to be engineers, doctors, and pharmacists - but poor people from extremely economically depressed countries don't get IT degrees.  

            Maybe I'm missing all those applicants from the favelas and amchi wasti of the world, but none of those I ever met came from them.

            This is a way to set an immigration policy the economically discriminates against the poor, and it's shit.

            "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

            by JesseCW on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:26:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks, Jesse (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW

              for clearing that up.  I agree, we need to protect US IT workers.

              "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

              by Betty Pinson on Wed May 22, 2013 at 08:01:46 AM PDT

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              •  Look I work around those H1B's... (0+ / 0-)

                in the IT industry.  Most don't know crap.  I have to keep tossing their code back at them and SHOW them where the errors are.  AND I am not a programmer, I am a Systems and Data Analyst.

                Look if the H1B visa mill had to show they hired X% of American workers so they could keep 100-X% of here and the % goes up for American IT workers go up, I would welcome it.

                As for pay, the H1B companies get the big bucks from the US companies, but pay them peanuts.  But from where they came from peanuts is gold.  

                All I care now is to find another position, as my contract is being not renewed as of mid June due to a bad business decision to sell a product we don't have and having to emergency develop, thus going over the allotted $$$ by 8 million.  

                "Death is the winner in any war." - Nightwish/Imaginareum/Song of myself.

                by doingbusinessas on Wed May 22, 2013 at 11:36:22 AM PDT

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            •  In many developing countries college is free. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              raptavio

              So poor people definitely get IT degrees. You seem to have certain biases.

        •  And he's dead wrong. (0+ / 0-)

          We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

          by raptavio on Wed May 22, 2013 at 10:45:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  They're struggling to pay off student loans. (0+ / 0-)

        Do you think most of those coming over on H1-B Visas for IT work are?

        Do you understand that this is a part of what drives wages down?  They don't have to pay off the cost of a US education.  They can't unionize, because if they lose their job they get deported.  They can't even negotiate for raises, really, because they have no bargaining position.

        I've actually seen a pharmacist on H1-B Visa laugh out loud at an American Pharmacist who was talking about his 1,700 dollar a month student loan payment.  He said, flatly, "This why it is a waste to put the poor in Universities.  We don't give them that kind of false hope.  If you needed to borrow tuition money, you didn't belong there".

        That's not the kind of immigrants we need to build a nation with compassion.

        "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

        by JesseCW on Wed May 22, 2013 at 07:17:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Seen that... (0+ / 0-)

          Yes,  some Indians have a shitty attitude about class hierarchy.  They bring their caste-based cultural attitudes with them.    I do not like the hierarchical nature of their culture.

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