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View Diary: Have Dems sold out too early on immigration? Not if they want something to actually pass (317 comments)

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  •  He's politically expedient (11+ / 0-)

    And if that was such an outlandish claim then it should be pretty easy to find a counter-example.

    More and more attacks on "purity." We're going to get exactly the bill that the neoliberals want and kos is going to call it a victory for progressives, just like the DCCC is a progressive organization and Citizens United is also now good for progressives.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Wed May 22, 2013 at 01:11:17 PM PDT

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    •  There's a big difference between (21+ / 0-)

      saying "he's politically expedient" and saying he has "always argued for selling out LGBT people."

      It's one thing to suggest, as you do, that kos looks at political outcomes first. But JesseCW's accusation is that kos shows determined bigotry, since he has "always argued for selling out LGBT people."  I'd like to see some backup for that accusation.

      The question I asked, and still ask is: if a person feels that way, why hang around here?  

      "Why reasonable people go stark raving mad when anything involving a Negro comes up, is something I don’t pretend to understand." ~ Atticus Finch, "To Kill a Mockingbird"

      by SottoVoce on Wed May 22, 2013 at 01:22:32 PM PDT

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      •  To answer your last question (7+ / 0-)

        Because kos is not the whole of this site.

        As for the rest of it. Selling out LGTB rights has been politically expedient more times than not. If you can point out where kos called on standing up for LGBT rights at the expense of some other groups I'm all ears.

        Now we've got dems arguing for an immigration bill that will demonstrably hurt workers and won't include LGTB people. Not to mention the fact that it isn't even that great for immigrants. Sure, if they can afford a long drawn out process to get citizenship, during which their legal status is rather questionable, then they'll be better off. The poorer won't be able to do this at all. At least if what I've read is correct. This is going to be like the No Child Left Behind debacle all over again.

        What next, the return of the bracero?

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Wed May 22, 2013 at 01:56:58 PM PDT

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      •  So love it or leave it? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SpecialKinFlag, JesseCW, Dallasdoc


        Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.

        by george in san diego on Wed May 22, 2013 at 02:57:30 PM PDT

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      •  Except that JesseCW NEVER SAID KOS... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, Ryvr


        He said, "Kos has always argued for selling out LGBT people whenever there would be the slightest difficulty involved in not doing so."

        Every single person who HR'd that comment committed ratings abuse. I hope Kos takes away their ratings privileges.

        You are making the same type of argument that the gun nuts make when they drop that part about, "A well-regulated militia."

        My question is whether your problem is with reading comprehension or honesty.

        Obama is the Chickenshit-in-Chief for failing to stand up to Republicans on all their phony scandals, from the "beer summit," to Van Jones, "death panels," Shirley Sherrod, contraception, Benghazi, and the IRS.

        by expatjourno on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:56:02 AM PDT

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    •  AoT says: More and more attacks on "purity." (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, mchristi314

      And I say: Exactly what we need, if we intend to win elections - for example midterm elections.

      In a democracy it is very limited, what you can achieve without winning elections.

      He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

      by Sophie Amrain on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:03:24 PM PDT

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      •  The Dems attacked the "purity" wing (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CajunBoyLgb, Dallasdoc, expatjourno

        relentlessly in the lead up to 2010 and look how that turned out.

        If this passes it will be another version of No Child Left Behind: everything the big corporations want.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:09:42 PM PDT

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