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View Diary: Have Dems sold out too early on immigration? Not if they want something to actually pass (317 comments)

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  •  plus, it's not like scuttling the whole bill (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zizi

    brings marriage equality any closer.

    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

    by Loge on Wed May 22, 2013 at 02:26:43 PM PDT

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    •  It means the issue can be addressed in 2 years (6+ / 0-)

      or 4.

      But we've seen what you and the rest of the reflexively pro-sellout crowd do with bad bills.  You promise to help "fix them later", then after they pass you insist that anyone still pointing out the flaws you once admitted were odious are now wonderful features.

      We've been around for a sell-out or two.

      "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

      by JesseCW on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:32:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just think of how much better the world would be (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larsstephens

        if instead of providing a path to citizenship for 11 million people, we do  . . . nothing.  I could just as easily turn the tables and suggest you're reflexively pro-complaining.   I'm not particularly interested in measuring legislation against impossible outcomes nor in indulging the counterfactuals that those impossible outcomes otherwise inevitable, except for the moral failings of people who couldn't possibly know how to govern.  You've been around for a few debates, that's it, and it's not a source of expertise on anything else.  It's a lazy simplification, and the broad, unsubstantiated "you" is an example of that.

        I also have no idea what you're talking about on a more specific level  -- the bill will remain discriminatory, but exactly to the extent anything is.  This moves the issue sideways.  But I would never defend anything discriminatory to gays and lesbians on the specific basis that it's discriminatory.  

        Otherwise, I agree there's a difference in the thought process between people who try to work within unpleasant political constraints and those who believe they can be assumed away.  Whatever name given to your side is irrelevant, because your criticism isn't sufficiently useful to have influence to people in government, but to the extent these ideas get out and dampen enthusiasm for real legislative accomplishments, you should at least recognize that you have every right to approach the issue as you do, just that it's wrong.  

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:11:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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