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View Diary: Have Dems sold out too early on immigration? Not if they want something to actually pass (317 comments)

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  •  What do you propose as an alternative? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stevemb, Larsstephens

    I'm on your side. What do you propose?  No bill?

    •  Pinning the failure to pass a bill on the GOP. (7+ / 0-)

      And running on it in 2014.

      Then passing a better bill with a Democratic House in 2015.

      Obama is the Chickenshit-in-Chief for failing to stand up to Republicans on all their phony scandals, from the "beer summit," to Van Jones, "death panels," Shirley Sherrod, contraception, Benghazi, and the IRS.

      by expatjourno on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:00:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK, that's at least reasonable (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        expatjourno, Larsstephens

        and it might work.

        However, we need to win more Senate and House seats, and we need to win them in marginal seats (we already have the liberals). So, what we need is evidence or a strategy that will mean that pinning the failure to pass on the GOP will gain us votes in those seats, either by getting more people to the polls or by tapping their views.

        I think this evidence could be found.

        •  You raise a good point. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          plf515, Tweedledee5

          In those marginal seats, immigration alone might not be much help. But, as part of building a picture of GOP extremism, maybe. And, considering the long run demographics, I would rather have a bill pass with zero Republican votes.

          I know that it's a shame to make people wait. On the other hand, the delay could be made up for with a faster path to citizenship.

          Obama is the Chickenshit-in-Chief for failing to stand up to Republicans on all their phony scandals, from the "beer summit," to Van Jones, "death panels," Shirley Sherrod, contraception, Benghazi, and the IRS.

          by expatjourno on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:32:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  2012 and the GOP turnabout are the evidence. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          plf515, Puffin, Dallasdoc
          So, what we need is evidence or a strategy that will mean that pinning the failure to pass on the GOP will gain us votes in those seats, either by getting more people to the polls or by tapping their views.
          The Republicans are the ones who are desperate for this bill to pass so they can claim they supported immigration reform and thereby (they hope) take that issue off the table.  They know they need Latino votes if they are to have any hope of winning the presidency every again.  So they're the ones on the hot seat, not the Democrats.  

          Why did their attitude on immigration reform change so abruptly after 2012?  Because the few remaining smart people in the GOP realized that they were sitting on a demographic time bomb.  That puts all the pressure on the Republicans, which means the Democrats are the ones with the leverage.  But being Democrats, they gave it up.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Wed May 22, 2013 at 09:41:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I Propose Growing A Spine (7+ / 0-)

      Pass a good bill (no H1B give-aways at the expense of the middle class, no treating Talibornagain bigotry as if it were a legitimate alterrnate point of view). Let the GOP own the failure (until they're knocked out of power or get so desperate to stanch the Latino-vote bleed that they'll take what they can get and like it, whichever comes first).

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:06:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How about (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Puffin, Tweedledee5

      Democrats fighting for what we want instead of accepting what the other side will give?

      In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria. Ben Franklin

      by nokkonwud on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:10:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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