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View Diary: I Repent For My Ancestor's Sins, Cindy Jacobs... (37 comments)

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  •  If true I'd give thanks to my ancestors for (9+ / 0-)

    letting me worship pagan deities. How come she doesn't ask those of "strictly" European ancestry to renounce their blood line that was well known for worshiping pagan deities, at least according to the Roman Catholic church but then she probably thinks the Catholics are pagans too.

    I'd tip you but they cut off my tip box. The TSA would put Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad on the no-fly list.

    by OHdog on Wed Jun 05, 2013 at 09:54:48 AM PDT

    •  Oh yeah, (5+ / 0-)

      they think the Catholics are damned too.

      http://www.talk2action.org/...

      This effort includes extensive mission work around the globe featuring their well developed spiritual warfare strategies which have been published in books and videos. The goal of these spiritual warfare tactics is to take cities and communities from the territorial demons that control theses geographic areas and that they believe prevent their efforts in planting their own Apostolic churches. Spiritual warfare around the globe includes the goal of taking control of cities through the expulsion of witches and demons, and the conversion of Roman Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and all other religions. They also believe that there must be a civil war in the Protestant church in order for them to purify that institution before Jesus can return. The movement has an extensive focus on youth, with several leaders specifically prophesying that those born after 1973 are to be the trainers and warriors for God’s army.

      She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

      by Winter Rabbit on Wed Jun 05, 2013 at 10:20:01 AM PDT

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      •  Her kind tried converting my folks in previous (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JayRaye, Winter Rabbit

        centuries, often at sword point or on the rack or at the stake.  The majority of us who reached that point of decision burned rather than convert; and, more recently, we used our last breaths as the gas filled our lungs to whisper the Sh'ma (I use "we" and "our" because in our culture, what happens to one Jew happens to us all, and also because I am old enough to remember the news coming of my grandmother's sisters, and every other member of my extended family who remained in Europe, dying in the camps in Germany and Poland.  It was very much a personal tragedy imposed by Christian/pagan Europe upon my very non-Christian tribe -- and a tragedy which devastated the Romani and other minority cultures, as well).  

        Being a "stiff-necked people" is not always a bad thing -- stiff-neckedness of the right variety can ensure long-term survival against substantial odds.  My folks were worshiping HaShem several thousand years prior to Christianity, and will still be worshiping HaShem when Christianity has been long forgotten.  I suspect Native Americans and many other ancient cultures will also outlast the church, just as we've outlasted the Roman Empire and every other great empire of antiquity.  I certainly hope so.

        On a side note to my comment above regarding what happens to one Jew also happening to all other Jews, an accurate extrapolation can be made to state that what happens to one human impacts all of humanity.  When we hurt one person, we damage all of G-d's world.  When we help one person, we've taken one small step towards perfecting the world.  Some Christians understand this simple concept.  Many do not.  I respect Christians who understand it.  Those who do not, I consider dangerous to all of humanity.

        Another danger I see in much -- not all -- of Christianity is the insistence upon converting the world to their beliefs.  Much of Islam also suffers from that fundamental fault.  All of us, as a common race, are far better off concerning ourselves with our own behavior, and spending our lives trying to better the world for others, than wasting our efforts and resources trying to convert others to our beliefs.  Neither your people nor mine seek converts -- my own folks often go so far as to actively discourage conversion to our ways.        

        Winter Rabbit, I apologize for such a long and rambling post in the middle of your thread, but your fine diary got me thinking and remembering -- thinking, in particular, about the many experiential similarities between your people and my own, and remembering human tragedy that, for me and other older Jews, seems as recent as yesterday.  Your people and my people, our common experiences throughout history far outweigh our differences.  I'm quite sure that your Great Spirit is our HaShem, and that He revealed Himself in varying forms to different peoples, in ways that our ancestors could understand.  Certainly, many of the values held by my folks and the multitudes of indigenous American peoples are more alike than different (although I do question the wisdom of casting virgins into volcanoes, but then we Jews have well-recognized faults, too).

        Thank you for the diary, and for stirring up a few thoughts in my calcified, semi-dormant brain.  Regards --

        Reuven W.

        For this you went to college?

        by Not A Bot on Wed Jun 05, 2013 at 02:04:37 PM PDT

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        •  Beautiful Not A Bot (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Not A Bot

          and I so agree, let me talk more later - probably not till tomorrow. Till then.

          She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

          by Winter Rabbit on Wed Jun 05, 2013 at 06:36:53 PM PDT

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        •  You are right about the connectedness (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Not A Bot

          no"Sendt to find for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee."

          I'd tip you but they cut off my tip box. The TSA would put Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad on the no-fly list.

          by OHdog on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 04:33:15 AM PDT

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        •  I think that's the key (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Not A Bot

          when you said "Neither your people nor mine seek converts." Live and let live. And I think we will be around after the church falls one day, because those that seek control always end being controlled by their own manipulation. And growth is inevitable, tends to make (speaking for myself from 15 years of sobriety) the lesson stick when it's "their turn." But they'll be a menace until they get it, for as long as it takes in lieu of divine intervention, that I'd bet good money on (if I had it anyway).  

          She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

          by Winter Rabbit on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 06:27:59 AM PDT

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          •  Thank you for the kind words (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Winter Rabbit

            And congratulations on the 15 years -- that shows great inner strength.  I have a grandson-in-law who struggled with alcohol for a long, long time.  He's a good man, and if I hadn't been blessed with all daughters, I'd have been happy to have him as a son.  He recently celebrated six years of sobriety.  Myself, I used to get thoroughly plastered once a year, on Purim, but don't even do that any more.  The rabbinic command for that holy day is to celebrate and "drink until you can't tell the difference between 'Blessed is Mordechai' and 'Cursed is Haman.'"  Age has enabled me to fulfill that commandment without the wine.  Heck, half the time I don't remember who I am these days.

            Anyway, yes, I think you picked up on the gist of what I was trying to say in my oversized post up yonder, that many of the problems with religion are caused by the urge to convert everyone who believes differently.  The world would be a much kinder place if more of us learned to mind our own business.

             

            For this you went to college?

            by Not A Bot on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 01:53:56 PM PDT

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    •  The war on Saturnalia. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Winter Rabbit

      Get the 'oopsie' out of 'keep and bear arms' see GunFAIL and Gun Crazy diaries weekly.

      by 88kathy on Wed Jun 05, 2013 at 04:13:12 PM PDT

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