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View Diary: The Evening Blues - 6-19-13 (23 comments)

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  •  good evening joe and everyone (4+ / 0-)

    I will read a few articles - I saw the tar sands one too..

    Sorry to say I am in a pessimistic mood tonight. This diary here was discouraging. The whole diary and a couple other things made me wonder. This diary too.

    There's truth in the second diary. Well, when people are hurting they look outside the mainstream and that's found mostly on the right.

    My thoughts are a bit complicated to put into words. I just wish we could do what Thomas Frank suggests.

    As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

    by joedemocrat on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 05:15:15 PM PDT

    •  evening joe d. (6+ / 0-)

      i am currently working on an article along the lines of the first one, though it is a bit more complex and detailed.  

      it's a pretty good time to be a little depressed about the way that things are going, so long as it leads to some action to make some changes.

      and yes, i'd say that the second diary nails it when it calls out moderate democrats for shooting themselves in the foot by throwing their further left brothers under the bus.  anybody that has a foggy idea of what the overton window is, or how to negotiate with an adversary will see the foolishness of what moderate dems have done to themselves and their movement.

      i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

      by joe shikspack on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 05:34:42 PM PDT

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      •  I look forward to your diary.. (4+ / 0-)

        if by "article" you mean a diary for daily kos..

        I'll say why the first diary bothered me so much. It was an admission they know the climate crisis is very serious, but instead of trying to address it they do this?  To me, that was the ultimate signal elites run everything. I thought it had to be an exaggeration, but MB rec'd it and the eco team here is outstanding and very credible. Those were my honest feelings while I read it.

        Anyway, I don't know if by article you mean for Daily Kos but sure hope so.

        As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

        by joedemocrat on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 05:45:09 PM PDT

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        •  yes it will run here on daily kos... (4+ / 0-)

          and a few other places that i post once i beat it into shape.  i've got most of it written now, but there will be an editing challenge because it's pretty long.  

          yes, what is happening in a nutshell is that the government (before and during the obama administration) has pursued policies that make climate disasters, economic disasters and resource shocks predictable and inevitable.  rather than create sane policies for a sustainable future, they are soliciting military "solutions" for the problems they are creating and labeling those who demand sane policy as terrorists.

          i'll have it done in a couple of days, i'd imagine.

          i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

          by joe shikspack on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 05:53:33 PM PDT

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        •  joe (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joedemocrat, joe shikspack

          what they will do about it is try to make money from it.  

          Maybe some sort of climate change mitigation industry.  Definitely the potable water industry.

          Nothing will get done until there is a profit to be made from it, and not until TPTB feel that they have scarfed up all the most critical and valuable land and resources to secure their own position.  Then they will get huge govt. contracts for the mitigation, the water, who knows?

          I have long thought that the climate deniers were not deniers at all. They simply wanted to keep a panic from happening and they did not want people to be looking for the safest land, the water resources, etc. and didn't want people preparing.  I imagine the state and fed govts. didn't want people ditching their coastal land all of a sudden either and tanking the real estate market.  But the big deniers who paid people to write scientific reports, question the science, and all of that -- I think they were motivated by two things actually. The obvious one was to be able to keep the oil and gas cash cow going. They'd been laying the ground work for nationwide fracking for a decade or so.  And the other one was to corner the market on the most viable resources and land.  

          When they feel they've got things locked up, they will probably have an epiphany and start making money from the mitigation and whatever else is there to be made money of.

          Also is it too CT to think that some Big Oil powers that be decided they wanted the Arctic to melt, once they realized the trajectory of climate change and that it might happen during their lifetimes and give them a whole new frontier at a time when all the easy oil was gone?


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 06:39:38 PM PDT

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          •  yes, (3+ / 0-)

            I understand corporations want to find a way to profit from everything. I understand they don't care about people or the environment - just profit.

            But 99% of our economy is dependent upon a stable climate. Our ability to solve all our other problems - unemployment to health care to world peace - depend on a stable climate. And long term, corporations also won't be able to increase profit unless there is a stable climate.

            Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't think much about that. After all, the same argument applies to most everything else corporate America has done. Does a non living minimum wage really help them long term?  Does all the uninsured?  Does our unemployment crisis?   No, none  of it does because there's that many fewer people who can buy their products and services. But that didn't stop them.

            I have zero faith in corporations - I don't put much past them.

            I would agree among political and corporate elites there are very few if any climate deniers. There are plenty of climate deniers among the population who listens to their media. I have known a lot of climate deniers during my life. Most of them get that from christian right media.

            As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

            by joedemocrat on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:03:03 PM PDT

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            •  I think there are some top-level deniers... (2+ / 0-)

              ...who aren't true-believer deniers. The Koch guys and Exxon, of course.

              But I think it is a mistake to believe that the large number of deniers in Congress, especially the additions in the Class of '10, actually accept climate science. They are very much like the general population you describe, many of them tea partiers, and there is nothing in their campaign contributions or publicly available personal bios indicating that they're hoaxing people because of ties to the fossil fuel industry. That is not to say there are none in Congress who do fit that category.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 06:40:11 AM PDT

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    •  I've been trying to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe shikspack, joedemocrat

      prepare myself for it, joe.

      They're just too bought and too dependent on the oil & gas industry, and the war industry that if they say no to new wars and new projects, their owners will be displeased, and at the same time, they're retaliate by cutting significant numbers of jobs, and that whole negative spiral.

      The people who are supposed to represent us just allowed themselves to be bought, little by little until we're now at the point where the country is run by five organized crime gangs, as bobswern pointed out from some article or another, but it's true.

      Energy crime gang
      PhRMA
      Ag/Food
      Banks/FIRE
      War & Intel


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 06:31:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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