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View Diary: What's Happenin'? ☮ ♥ ☺6.10.13 (120 comments)

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  •  You are proposing that (8+ / 0-)

    we allow the monitoring but demand to be paid for it?

    "Justice is a commodity"

    by joanneleon on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 06:03:14 AM PDT

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    •  I don't think it can be stopped just contained (7+ / 0-)

      I'm casting about for ways to do that, but reducing the (currently infinite) profit margins on stealing your data under color of law would help contain the problem long enough to work out firmer solutions.

      Threatening the economic value of pillaging our privacy is a way to force that more lasting, principled conversation.

      Thing of it as union organization... of a kind.

      •  Ah, I see where you are going (6+ / 0-)

        Like campaign finance reform (seems like such a trite term at the moment), you're looking to undermine the foundation, or a part of the foundation of the surveillance state.  

        I don't expect a perfect solution either. But it seems that things were a lot better before we outsourced so much of our defense and intelligence work.  It was just a fast trip to hell from there.

        That's one of the reasons why I was glad that Snowden was a contractor.

        I mean, we know that we have work to do on the legal aspect of it, but the mercenary problem has to be addressed in a major way.  

        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 06:28:21 AM PDT

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        •  And the mercenary problem IS the problem (7+ / 0-)

          Or, depending on one's politics the solution (needed existential crisis) of a nation-state model that no longer works.

          Corporatists (who have their own left-right flavors but tend to be centrist and quite comfortable with authoritarian norms) figure being inside and connected with private bureaucracies and networks is a comfortable migration from the current privatized public space inside the Beltway. "Let the experts run things; that's why LIKE having experts be our doctors, lawyers, soldiers, etc..."

          Libertarians (likewise a spectrum, but tend in the modern universe to be increasingly polarized, and weighted strongly to reactionary camp) would as soon have neither corporations nor state polities of any variety run things but, if we have to have them for things like highways and tornado warnings, at least hamstring large bureaucracies' ability to find new things to dominate. Privatized militias on the government dime have opened up a space for arguing for even more privatization of security, specifically (cringe at using this term even in passing) homeland security and the home itself.

          Socialists (in the broad sense that communities, sometimes quite conservative ones, should have a strong say in both public and private conduct, of both individual and institutional entities, on the social ideals). The particulars of who and how social amelioration should be organized, funded and administered clearly vary but at the national level this space tends to the center-left. Distrust of national-level, one-size-fits-all politics of any flavor, including national defense, is creating yet another centripetal effect.

          All three have factions that fall on the side of the "make government work/ burn DC down" divide. Both of the major political parties schlepp over this divide, though clearly the GOP is ahead of the schism curve, with the blue team... so-called blue team... about 15-20 years back in terms of crisis.

          And the Republicans' experience is instructive: that the corporatists use money and access and technical expertise to keep the militia wannabes and the conservative social engineers in line, because the technocratic/finance wing gets that Americans are used to going to work in their world but don't want to live in the world of the preppers and the thumpers.

          What's galling is how Democratic corporatists plagiarize this RepubliParadigm in every particular, on the premise that Americans don't want to hang out with high gay married people or be oppressed by socialized medicine , so don't even ask for such things if you don't want the fundie-militia-big business people to run the show for the rest of the century.

          Of course... the minor detail that marriage equality and decriminalization of marijuana are rolling along should not divert from the important issue that public option health care and jobs bills are Commie talk. :)

          You get the idea. :)

      •  i've been wondering what would happen... (5+ / 0-)

        if a very large number of people decided that due to the spying that they would cease to pay their telecommunications bills (phone, internet, cell service, etc.)

        i remember a story abbie hoffman told about how he stopped paying his phone bill because he thought his line was tapped and the service was never cut off.

        i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

        by joe shikspack on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 06:48:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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