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View Diary: "Where were you on the night of June 10th, 2013?" (77 comments)

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  •  you really don't have a problem with the (31+ / 0-)

    government tracking your movement around your city and keeping records of those movements?

    You honestly don't see a complete map of your movement made by piecing license plate and gps info together in a database and keeping these records for ghu only knows how long as an issue?

    I see it as a huge privacy invasion whether it's the government or private enterprise such as some of these license reading and tracking companies...

    Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
    I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
    Emiliano Zapata

    by buddabelly on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 04:49:39 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Question. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bobtmn

      No I don't have a problem with that, I don't know why it's a big deal. When I'm in public people can see me they see where I go. This is nothing new.

      But let me ask, how would you feel if *I* was the one doing it? Because ANYONE can do this and the only way to stop it is to put massive taking on things like "taking photographs" and "processing data"

      Do we really want to live in the kind of country that says "no you can't run that kind of computer program!!" or "no you can aggregate that data!"

      I don't!

      •  I don't care if you do it. (14+ / 0-)

        Or if Google does it (assuming the situation with them sharing it with the NSA is resolved).

        I care specifically if the government does it, because the government is the organization we've trusted with the guns and the prisons and the ability to use force to control people.

        You can't really do anything to me with the information you collect. Google can't do much (maybe try to sell me stuff? who cares?)

        But the government can use the information to (for instance) connect me to a crime. Or worse things.

        "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

        by kyril on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 08:12:20 PM PDT

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        •  Google can sell it (0+ / 0-)

          The technology to do this is new and creates a new kind of problem.   We cannot go back twenty years to a time when this sort of thing was impossible.     Anyone who thinks they can ban the government or private services from doing this sort of thing is proposing a far more comprehensive form of control than the monitoring itself represents.

          Once a technology exists, our only option is to control and monitor how it is used.    Banning the collection and correlation of this kind of information would just drive it further into secrecy, where it cannot be monitored at all, or drive it to the private sector where its use would be to make as much money as possible by using and selling the information.

          I am nostalgic for a time when we had privacy simply because there was no way to track all this information.   Now that there is a way, we need to control it, not drive it underground.

          Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

          by bobtmn on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 06:07:47 AM PDT

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          •  So here's a question - where does the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kbman

            Tens of billions of dollars needed to have these programs and the computer devices and machinery, and the personnel and the newly constructed buildings  to come from? If people are upset about this, wait till they realize how much of our tax dollars have gone off to pay for this stuff. So yes, we do have a say - I don't know anyone my age who wants to give up their Social Security in order to have this God damn police state remain funded at such extreme levels.

            Both parties have been making it clear that there is no money for schools, or libraries, or fire fighters or anything, but now we find out that these expensive surveillance programs are in place. Are you kidding me? Maybe Obama should start with CPI cuts for these damn programs!

            Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

            by Truedelphi on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 10:39:24 PM PDT

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        •  Actually, I for one, have become more (0+ / 0-)

          Pro gun over the last eight years, than I ever thought I would live to be. Why? Because I remember back in the 1980's, how it is that the folks in the ghetto suddenly got all these high powered rifles and what not. The government's own CIA left tons of weaponry on flat cars parked in railroad yards, and let the word slip on the street, and then guns were everywhere.

          If the police can have guns, and folks in the ghetto will have guns, I sure as heck think normal people deserve 'em too. And yes, I know I sure can't stop the SWAT team with one gun, but at least I would go down fighting. And the revelations over how Big Brother-ish our government has become is not decreasing  that feeling one small bit.

          Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

          by Truedelphi on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 10:35:18 PM PDT

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      •  if you were doing it it would be called stalking (16+ / 0-)

        and you could go to jail.

        Using multiple cameras around a city to create a map of every license plate and it's travels is well beyond the edge of privacy.....

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 09:12:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No, you don't have a right to tail me around and (6+ / 0-)

        photograph me without my authorization.  And if I found you doing it I could slap a restraining order on you.  And yes, even if you are fine with your phone recording every time you exceed the speed limit or visit a shady part of town, I'm not.  Maybe you have no ambition in life and see no reason not to acquiesce to blackmail because you cannot ever fathom yourself doing something controversial and will gladly roll when first confronted, but that is not me and that is not the society I want to live in.

         

        To any wingnut: If you pay my taxes I'll give you a job.

        by ban48 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 07:33:40 AM PDT

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    •  Why would anyone give a flying (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kbman, Oh Mary Oh, mkor7, Meteor Blades

      fuck? "They" have been at this for ten years and haven't stopped or arrested anyone connected with Terrism™ - before or after the act. "They" seem to be more concerned with harassing 80 year old grandmas at TSA check points
      than gathering data.

      See you sonsabitches at NN13! Look for the Netroots Radio Banner and stop by and say hello!

      by winkk on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 09:35:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Elliot Spitzer (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kbman, FindingMyVoice, winkk, KenBee

        Whenever this kind of talk comes up, I think about Elliot Spitzer, one of the better checks on banking power we've seen. It was, supposedly, reporting of inordinate cash transactions which got him in trouble, for what was entirely private (if unsavory) activities.

        It was PATRIOT Act kinda stuff. That we were promised would never touch anything but terrorism. I missed entirely where Spitzer had anything to do with terrorism. There is an argument to be made that all of us were harmed by him being removed from his position of authority.

        Mark Twain: It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

        by Land of Enchantment on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 04:23:14 AM PDT

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        •  I mentioned Spitzer as well in a response to (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          winkk, KenBee, Land of Enchantment

          futurebird - a Kossack who refers to us as "privacy nuts" - in a different diary.

          link

          ...

          This is the kind of power that secret spying confers, the ability of those in power to steer things their way regardless of what is good policy or appropriate behavior. On a local level it could be a county commissioner who ran on limiting growth and protecting the environment versus a powerful builder. If the builder is politically connected as only money can connect someone, he simply asks his friends for "help with Commissioner Smith." Next thing you know, there's a story in the paper that hints at a potential Smith scandal, and an anonymous letter suggesting that he drop his opposition to XYZ development if he wants his extra-marital affair to remain a secret. Instead of standing up for what he ran on, he chooses to avoid scandal and instead vote against the best interests of his constituents.

          It is believed by many that something similar to this is what happened with Eliot Spitzer - he refused to back down from going after Wall Street criminality and paid the price.

          It is also reported that something similar has been practiced by Rupert Murdoch, using the results of his reporters' spying to extort policy positions from various politicians.

          Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

          by kbman on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 10:03:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  "Enemy of the State" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GrannyGeek, radical simplicity

      Will Smith and Gene Hackman 1998, that's 15 years ago.

      My expectation would be that we are presently a couple of decades behind the curve in appreciating things like real time satellite surveillance, the ability to eavesdrop wirelessly, track transponders and cellphones, the number of people employed as intelligence agents and the overlap with cameras in stores and public places as used in the Boston Marathon bombing.

      My personal solution to the problem you mention might be to avoid pointing my license plate in the direction of police cars by keeping my car parked on my farm so much as is possible, and to avoid being spotted by cameras by staying home. That said I can go on Google and see my place to a resolution of 20 feet.

      Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

      by rktect on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 12:45:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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