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View Diary: International leaders demand answers about NSA spying (287 comments)

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  •  Much of this based on misinformation (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sky Net, duhban

    There has long been daylight between the US and Europe on data privacy issues.  Bear in mind, however, that just because they claim something doesn't make it so.  

    Billions of e-commerce dollars are involved and it gives European businesses a competitive advantage if they can convince their consumers that their data is not safe on US servers.  Even if - as is the case - US protections are as strong or stronger.

    There is a tendency to attribute nobler motives to people abroad, just because they are non-Americans and must therefore be operating from disinterested and noble motivations.  That is often not the case.

    So I would take with a grain of salt all these statements from EU, Chinese, Brazilian or whomever.  It is in their commercial and economic interest to steer people away from US markets and firms and towards their own.

    "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

    by FDRDemocrat on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 01:35:42 PM PDT

    •  the point isn't what the governments are saying (9+ / 0-)

      the point is that they feel the need to say it.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:05:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It might also be in their interest to steer clear (1+ / 0-)
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      AoT

      for privacy reasons. You claim it's misinformation from the other guy but back those allegations up with nothing. We now know the US is collecting the data, where's your proof the other guys are too?

      •  To be fair (1+ / 0-)
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        Just Bob

        whether or not they are collecting this sort of data, we are definitely collecting it from them. It's what the NSA does. Supposedly it was suppose to be the only thing the NSA did.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 04:57:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But I miss your point. Yes, we are definitely (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT

          collecting from them but where's the evidence that they are doing any collecting?

          •  My point was that (0+ / 0-)

            Europe doesn't gain anything in terms of business by pointing out that we're violating people's privacy because we're doing ti to everyone. Not sure that you were the right comment to respond to.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 05:46:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  When people are quoting the Chinese and Indians... (0+ / 0-)

        ...you don't need to look far for evidence.  PRC actively violates privacy as a matter of public policy.  India has very little in the way of laws protecting privacy and in fact have for years granted full access to their intelligence services at least in areas of unrest, e.g. the northeast, but likely in fact throughout the country.

        In the EU, while they tend to come down hard on private sector privacy issues, the average EU zone citizen is giving it up big time to their governments compared to here in the US.  French and British secrecy powers are broader than ours and they don't have a First Amendment to worry about.

        It shouldn't be news that some "pro-privacy" foreign interests have an economic interest in making their competition look bad.

        I am not saying there are not legitimate issues to examine regarding the NSA's behavior.  

        I am simply saying take what these "civil liberties advocates" in other countries are saying about the USA with a grain of salt.  A lot of e-commerce money is at stake.

        "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

        by FDRDemocrat on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 11:00:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Their data ISN'T SAFE on U.S. servers (2+ / 0-)
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      3goldens, elfling

      The U.S. government can access it at any time, and the U.S. government is the arbiter of the reason for that access.  Foreign companies now know, for certain, that proprietary company information and trade secrets are compromised.  All of their communications to and from the U.S. are collected and could be perused at any time.  Their business is at risk because they no longer have control of their data.

      •  Then put all your data in India or Brazil (0+ / 0-)

        What we have here in the US is worthy of scrutiny and improvement.  

        But matters are far, far worse in almost every other part of the world.  We need to keep perspective here.

        We have a USA information superhighway with potholes and patches that need fixing, e.g. issues with privacy concerns.  

        But almost all the rest of the world, respect for privacy is honored more by its absence.  Few countries have the existing elaborate protections we do.

        "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

        by FDRDemocrat on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 11:04:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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