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View Diary: Press, polls wrongly conflate Bush and Obama NSA surveillance (189 comments)

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  •  Yes and I cited article 12 (0+ / 0-)

    of the Declaration of Human Rights.

    Now how pray tell are "We the People" supposed to debate and give informed consent to this program, when revealing its very existence is prima facie illegal?  Would the ACLU be filing suit if Edward Snowden had not stepped forward?

    Economic Left/Right: -7.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.00
    Two steps to the right of Trotsky.

    by jvance on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 09:26:26 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What's at issue with the Patriot Act (0+ / 0-)

      is the 4th Amendment.  But since you mentioned Article 12:

      No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
      The collection of metadata that the Supreme Court has held is constitutional is not arbitrary interference with privacy. The key word here is privacy. The Supreme Court held that records of calls you make voluntarily to a third-party are not private.

      If you dial a number provided by a phone company, and make a call on a network owned and operated by that phone company, the record of that phone call, absent any other identifying information, is not private. What is private is the content of that phone call and the fact that you made it. For the government to verify that you made that call and to access its contents, it must obtain a warrant.

      Snowden disclosed that the NSA has the capability to search billions of records of sensitive information. But capability is not authority.

      The mere existence of this data and the capability to search it does not, in and of itself, constitute arbitrary interference from privacy.

      The fact that Snowden maintains that abuse is inevitable is not reason enough to leak national security secrets. If that's the case, then we may as well not have a government because abuse in our government is inevitable. The constitution doesn't guarantee freedom from abuse. What it guarantees is the means of the people to redress those abuses.

      The people have the right to determine what constitutes "unreasonable search and seizure" and we also have the right to expect that our laws are respected.

      •  Bullshit, bullshit and more bullshit (0+ / 0-)

        http://news.cnet.com/...

        "we also have the right to expect that our laws are respected."

        I agree 100%.  The NSA is not respecting our laws, and I thank Ed Snowden for doing his patriotic duty by bring that to our attention.

        Economic Left/Right: -7.38
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.00
        Two steps to the right of Trotsky.

        by jvance on Sun Jun 16, 2013 at 12:34:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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