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View Diary: Invitation To Respectful And Honest Discussion Between Party Loyalists And Progressives (58 comments)

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  •  What's your point? The asinine comment leaves (0+ / 0-)

    it unclear.

    •  You may as well have titled it: (0+ / 0-)

      Respectful and Honest Discussion between Those F)$*@ing Idiots and the Rest of Us."

      I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

      by second gen on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 08:46:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now you see, once you move from the asinine to (0+ / 0-)

        the honest discussion, it's easier to engage.

        Am I to assume you took offense to the tone in prior diaries and the commentary related to the latest events?

        That's fair.

        But as it relates to this diary and its content, do you see any type of disrespect or derision in it?

        That's important to me because I wrote it in good faith with the intention of generating respectful and honest discussion.

        •  Yes. In the title. (0+ / 0-)
          But as it relates to this diary and its content, do you see any type of disrespect or derision in it?
          That's the point of my comment. You can't open an honest and respectful discussion when the very title suggests that this "respectful" discussion is between you and those other assholes.

          I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

          by second gen on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 09:09:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's no my intention, thus I'm not suggesting (0+ / 0-)

            it.  That's your interpretation.

            But either way, I do see it as food for thought.

            So I guess that you object to the term "Democratic Party Loyalists?"

            If that's your objection, then now that you bring it up I see your point.

            It wasn't my intention; I thought I was just referring to a factual condition.

            Either way, your input is useful.

            •  Labeling it as a one side or the other (0+ / 0-)

              disagreement, and using charged terms such as "loyalists" and further suggesting that if said "loyalists" don't agree with you, they can't be considered a "Progressive", which is clearly the preferred group, makes it automatically antagonistic. I know good Progressives who aren't on the same side of this issue as you are. But by your metric, they would be considered "No true Scotsman".

              Because of that, I find the discussion neither respectful nor honest.

              I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

              by second gen on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 09:36:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Here's a simple test (I would hope) as to the (0+ / 0-)

                issue of respect and honesty in an argument.

                As you can clearly see, I already stated that I see your point regarding the title of the diary.  And I clarify it wasn't my intention for it to be interpreted as antagonistic.

                So, I've giving you that in an attempt to show that I'm able to engage in an honest argument.  Also, I've always said that I'm only interested in the truth about any given subject, and that if someone presents me with an argument stronger than mine, I would readily admit it.

                In this interaction you presented your points, I read them, thought about them, and admitted you have a point.

                I'm not sure if that's enough, or if you would expect something more...

                Now, moving on from that, is it your position that there are not such thing as Democratic party loyalist?

                Here are the definitions I presented:

                Democratic Party Loyalists: Reliable Democrats who see themselves as pragmatic, and who believe in working within the system, with the intention of electing more and better Democrats.  They understand that politics is about compromise, and believe in incremental achievements.

                Progressives: Progressives are mainly interested in social justice and in stamping out government corruption and abuse.  They don't necessarily go along with the notion of accepting the "lesser of two" evils when it comes to politics, seeing that approach as counterproductive to democracy.

                Do you think my attempt at even-handedness in trying to describe these two (very broad) categories is somehow dishonest or disrespectful?

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