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View Diary: Old white man decides to leave military sexual assault decisions in the hands of old white men (175 comments)

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  •  really. (0+ / 0-)

    Ask McArthur, how busting someone works.

    •  Ah, we aren't using the term the same way... (1+ / 0-)
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      patbahn

      Sorry - to most military folks, "busting" someone means a reduction in rank, as in an E-6 being "busted down to E-5" as the result of a disciplinary proceeding.

      If you mean "relieved of command", sure, there are numerous examples; the most recent was probably MG Baker, CO of Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa, who was relieved as a result of charges involving sexual activity and alcohol abuse.  (MG Baker was not, however, 'busted' in rank.)  A few years ago, a four-star was relieved of duty AND busted down to LTG for misusing government funds during his command stint at US Africa Command.  Before that, the next most recent (that comes to mind, anyway) was GEN McChrystal, who was relieved as commander of ISAF (Afghanistan) after he and his staff said some rather unflattering things about the civilian chain of command in the presence of a Rolling Stone reporter.  McChrystal was not reduced in rank.

      MacArthur's open defiance of the Commander-in-Chief was, of course, near-legendary on this scale.

      The key point here is that, in all of these cases, there were clear-cut offenses - definite actions by the generals concerned.  None of them were generic "oh, you aren't doing this part of your job well enough" situations.

      I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an example of that sort of "just not good enough" relieved-of-command involving general officers.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 04:22:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  really? (0+ / 0-)

        http://www.airforcetimes.com/...

        https://en.wikipedia.org/..._(general)

        http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/...

        At the time, the press and electronic media overwhelmingly interpreted General Fogleman’s act as a resignation in protest over the secretary of defense’s intention to block the promotion of Brig Gen Terryl "Terry" Schwalier to major general. Schwalier had commanded the 4404th Composite Wing in Saudi Arabia the previous year when a terrorist bomb had destroyed the Air Force housing complex known as Khobar Towers outside Dhahran Air Base, killing 19 airmen and wounding a total of some three hundred Americans. After one Department of Defense (DOD) and two Air Force investigations, Fogleman had concluded that Schwalier had done everything that could be expected of a commander and had no culpability in the tragedy; punishing him would have a chilling effect on commanders around the world who might then infer that protecting their forces outweighed accomplishing their missions.

        http://www.blackfive.net/...

        or look at John Singlaub or Shinseki.

        •  Well, let's see... (0+ / 0-)

          GEN Dugan was relieved in resposne to public statemnts - in other words, something he DID.

          The interview with GEN Fogleman refers to the promotion (or lack thereof) of MG Schwalier, who was NOT removed for cause or reduced in rank after Khobar Towers.   Whether an officer is promoted is a completely different question from relief-from-command or demotion.  (For one thing, promotions to O-7 (BG/RADM) and above require explicit Senate approval - and that isn't always an automatic thing.)

          Resignations are NOT the same as "relieved of command."  Sure, I'll grant that high-ranking "retirements" can be "retire or be relieved" situations, but we obviously don't have the full picture.

          Incidentally, you DO know that GEN Moseley was ultimately found to have violated various Federal rules/regulations in steering a lucrative contract to a particular contractor while serving as Chief of Staff, right?  In fact, the Secretary of the Air Force took the rather unusual step of issuing a "Letter of Admonishment in Retirement" against Moseley, just to make sure that it got into his records.

          I repeat - it's unusual to be formally relieved of command for generic "not good enough" reasons - that may keep you from your NEXT command or your next promotion (and folks usually retire or resign their commissions once that becomes obvious), but those are completely different questions.

          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

          by wesmorgan1 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 07:30:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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