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View Diary: Women's pay gap looks better because men's average pay has gotten worse (34 comments)

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  •  What did they major in (0+ / 0-)

    Have to adjust for the skew in majors.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 12:52:48 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  When AAUW controlled for that they... (5+ / 0-)

      ...still found a difference of 6.6% between male and female engineers and hard science majors one year after graduation.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 01:04:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  6.6% is a lot less than... (0+ / 0-)

        ...$7600, which is probably 20% of your typical college graduate salary. So, 2/3 of the gap can instantly be explained away by choice of major. Why are numbers like $7600 constantly repeated if they are misleading?

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 01:12:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In education, except at the very top, there... (3+ / 0-)

          ...is no gap. Should THAT be the marker? $7600 is the average, a standard way to measure. Should we start discounting the lower wages of men without high-school diplomas because degreed men working as bank executives are doing better?

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 01:33:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's an average... (0+ / 0-)

            ...of all women compared to all men. This is misleading because women and men tend to choose different majors (for whatever reason).

            In a given population, if most women tend to major in social work while most men major in chemical engineering, there will be a pay gap between men and women (on average), but that's perfectly ok (as long as the typical male and female social workers earn similar salaries).

            Today, people can choose whatever major they want or are qualified for. If more women choose lower paying majors, how is that discrimination? There may be socialization, family, or other issues at play, but it isn't discrimination.

            (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
            Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

            by Sparhawk on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 02:50:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  As the report points out... (2+ / 0-)

              ...the differences are there in almost every field, starting within the first year after graduation. Chemical engineering men  make more than chemical engineering women with the same degree and experience. That IS discrimination.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 03:36:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

                6.6%, which is a lot different than 20% or $7600 or whatever other numbers people use. Only numbers controlled for these factors are relevant.

                There may well be discrimination, but there's a big difference between 6% and 20% and correct numbers must be used in all cases, or it doesn't look credible.

                (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                by Sparhawk on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 03:43:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  "There may well be discrimination..." No. ... (1+ / 0-)

                  ...There IS discrimination. Shall we say that the official national unemployment rate is only 6.5% right now because that's the rate for women?

                  Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 03:49:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  thank you. for stating what should be obvious (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Meteor Blades, LinSea

                    to everyone.

                    For sparhawk (because i know MB knows this):

                    Today, people can choose whatever major they want or are qualified for. If more women choose lower paying majors, how is that discrimination? There may be socialization, family, or other issues at play, but it isn't discrimination.
                    Discrimination and sexism is embedded and institutionalized in all institutions of society. That discrimination affects everything, including whether women get into what schools and what majors or professions they "choose." It results in things like school guidance counselors encouraging girls to not pursue some professions, or not to take some classes that are needed for college. It affects everything. period.

                    "It is in the shelter of each other that people live." Irish Proverb

                    by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 04:03:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  That is incorrect (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                soros

                The report broke down 12 fields.  In seven of them (nursing, other health care, social services, business support, life sciences, hard sciences, and engineering) there was no significant gender difference.  There was a gender difference in education, sales, other white collar, management, and a catchall for "other ocupations."

                Further, the report did not report at all, and there is no way to divine from the report, such a fine-grained distinction as to chemical engineers.

                "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

                by Old Left Good Left on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 05:39:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

        The graph on page 17 of the AAUW study shows no significant gender difference in earnings one year after graduation in engineering, math, computer, and physical science occupations.

        "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

        by Old Left Good Left on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 04:53:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Skew? Like when a male has a B.S. degree (6+ / 0-)

      and I (female) have a B.S. and a Masters degree (in the same major), but I still make less than they do even though I have more work experience?

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 01:33:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  cause and effect aren't clear-cut (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      badscience, belinda ridgewood, LinSea

      And when more women go into a field, the salary drops!  Funny how that happens.

      •  When more people in general... (0+ / 0-)

        ...go into a field, the salary drops.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 02:51:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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