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  •  Muskeg takes 1000's of year to develop (7+ / 0-)

    The Muskeg or peatbogs that get destroyed were 10,000 years old, they find complete Mammoths preserved in the peat.

    And reclamation transforms the land to grassland.

    .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 12:50:36 PM PDT

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    •  Yes and rain forests too are self sustaining.. (10+ / 0-)

      ..self-regulating ecosystems as scientists have studied.

       I watched a program years ago studing the mystery of how could the sheer volume of the canopy in terms of actual mass be sustained by the amount of nutrients available in the relatively thin layer of top soil the canopy is growing up from.

       It was a fascinating science program.

      The scientists concluded that the canopy itself supplied the nutrients in an ecosystem that if/when is torn down would take millions of years and the same or very similar events that made rain forests possible in the first place.

       Iow's once destroyed the rain forests can't be replaced as they now are.

      So if energy corporations can't "match existing" by law as I was considering as a possible method of forcing the true costs born to be addressed then..

      •  Yes! We need a national movement to promote this (3+ / 0-)
        So if energy corporations can't "match existing" by law as I was considering as a possible method of forcing the true costs born to be addressed then..
        Carbon taxes, while still a small but increasingly politically acceptable option to climate change, are just one example of the general internalization of all external costs that we should be actively working towards, IMO.  A daunting prospect for sure, but one I think we must undertake if we are to have any hope of retaining the best of our current industrial civilization after we get through the coming transition to a global steady-state economy.

        Pessimism of the intellect; optimism of the will. - - Antonio Gramsci

        by lehman scott on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 02:01:32 PM PDT

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      •  I've read, I think it was in that book 1491 that (3+ / 0-)

        careful study of Amazonian rainforest shows ancient management across broad swaths. I've forgotten what they were aiming for, but it was reminiscent of the way native Americans burnt the plains with regularity to expand the area trees didn't grow so to support grazers to hunt. Likewise by killing lots of species to allow mostly chestnut and acorn to grow in the east. They harvested nuts and also deer ate the nuts.

        That said I've never seen as much plant diversity as in a semitropical forest that hadn't been cut in historic times. Something that took 500 or 1000 years to get to the stage it's at now, won't come back in a decade, or a lifetime.

        How big is your personal carbon footprint?

        by ban nock on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 08:18:41 PM PDT

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    •  fascinating.. (4+ / 0-)

      Irelands Peat bogs

      Their are some things we just should not exploit when once they're gone - they're gone.

      ..thank you

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