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View Diary: Yes, Congress and the president are responsible for the surveillance state (72 comments)

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  •  The American People Own This (1+ / 0-)
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    All of them. I agree completely with John Cole and Charles Pierce. At this phase it has to be infantile to expect elected officials to do the right thing absent massive organized education, advocacy and resistance by The People.

    My first response was "Great, America is finally getting pissed off about the right things but I bet nothing changes." But hey, prove me wrong, you know?

    "If that's what Fallujah is, then what's that band with all the Mexican kids in it?"

    by iSenseChange on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 10:21:36 AM PDT

    •  Bullshit! (4+ / 0-)

      It's not my fault, for example, our government is about to start another war based on lies:


      Published on Saturday, June 15, 2013 by Common Dreams
      Chemical Weapons Experts Not Sold on US Claim in Syria
      Scientists 'yet to see the telltale signs of a sarin gas attack'
      - Jacob Chamberlain, staff writer

      There is still a major lack of solid evidence that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons against rebel forces, chemical weapons experts warned on Friday, saying "they’ve yet to see the telltale signs of a sarin gas attack."

      According to McClatchy News, the Obama administration has their work cut out for them to prove such claims.

      McClatchy reports:

          Chemical weapons experts voiced skepticism Friday about U.S. claims that the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad had used the nerve agent sarin against rebels on at least four occasions this spring, saying that while the use of such a weapon is always possible, they’ve yet to see the telltale signs of a sarin gas attack, despite months of scrutiny.

          “It’s not unlike Sherlock Holmes and the dog that didn’t bark,” said Jean Pascal Zanders, a leading expert on chemical weapons who until recently was a senior research fellow at the European Union’s Institute for Security Studies. “It’s not just that we can’t prove a sarin attack, it’s that we’re not seeing what we would expect to see from a sarin attack.”

          Foremost among those missing items, Zanders said, are cellphone photos and videos of the attacks or the immediate aftermath.

          “In a world where even the secret execution of Saddam Hussein was taped by someone, it doesn’t make sense that we don’t see videos, that we don’t see photos, showing bodies of the dead, and the reddened faces and the bluish extremities of the affected,” he said.

      It's not your fault either. We do what we can to create a world about social justice, and hope people will join us.
      •  That's lovely (1+ / 0-)
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        But if that's the hope, America is screwed. The only thing that can save America from itself IS itself. The People elected Obama in the hopes that one man could fix everything that was shit-awful and it turned out that wasn't a reasonable expectation.

        The man has tried and not gotten credit in a number of areas that he should. However there's a whole host of other areas that he's not even going to bother getting into because the support isn't there or it will get swamped with 'Death Panel' shrieks from right wing harpies that are just louder than all the good folks standing around wishing and dreaming.

        It's up to the People and it always has been.

        "If that's what Fallujah is, then what's that band with all the Mexican kids in it?"

        by iSenseChange on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 10:49:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yeah poor put-upon Obama (7+ / 0-)

          there's simply no way he could have sold some real healthcare reform like the public option.... those "death panel" arguments were just too ironclad and there was obviously no public support for a public option.... better to just dust off the Heritage plan from the nineties and hope the R's don't say anything mean about it, since it was their idea in the first place. we all know how that turned out.

          yeah, we the people are really the ones to blame there. for sure.

          Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

          by Boogalord on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 11:04:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Have you sensed change lately? just curious! n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 05:29:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh sure, the mass of the people are going to rise (0+ / 0-)

      up and demand their rights not be tampered with.

    •  How do we own something that is secret? (1+ / 0-)
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      I am trying to understand your logic.  The military starts up massive collection of domestic communications in secret.  It is supposedly approved of by a court that operates in secret.  Congress supposedly has oversight but they are sworn to secrecy!  So now tell how "we the people" are to blame?

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Sun Jun 16, 2013 at 08:26:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is a cabal, a government within a government (0+ / 0-)

        And with our incredible level of revolving door corruption, there is NO OVERSIGHT! NONE!

        Just saying.

        This is a self perpetuating motion machine. A structure that was built up from within, without our knowledge or approval.

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