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View Diary: Snowden: "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor for an American" (316 comments)

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  •  I'm curious, which country do you think (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dianna

    he would have been safe in? I think his choice of Hong Kong is more cynical than he makes it out to be, but let's face it, any U.S. ally would hand him over immediately.

    •  Really? Ask Assange about that (0+ / 0-)

      as he has still yet to be handed over.
      http://www.cbsnews.com/...

      To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

      by dizzydean on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:55:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  but the UK wants to hand him over (0+ / 0-)

        It is spending millions guarding the embassy isn't it?  So aren't you validating exactly what the above poster just said

        •  No...he's sitting in Ecuador (0+ / 0-)

          Which perhaps was an option other than China for Snowden, no?

          To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

          by dizzydean on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:11:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What, to be prisoner in an embassy (0+ / 0-)

            With millions of dollars of police forces surrounding you waiting to arrest you

            BBC reports Assange prepared to stay there 5 more years

            That doesn't sound like a good option to pick England does it?

            •  Well, if Snowden had the opportunity to go (0+ / 0-)

              to HK, he could have gone to Ecuador proper rather than just the embassy in London.

              To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

              by dizzydean on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:22:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Assange shoosing to imprison himself in an (0+ / 0-)

              embassy rather than face rape charges against him in a progressive country like Sweden is on Assange.  Snowden hasn't been accused of committing rapes.

              At any rate, I heard early in the Snowden story that Iceland was a possibility of a place for Snowden to flee.  Lots of progressives look upon Iceland as a utopia (like they used to regard Sweden), so why not go there instead of China?

              Now, if Snowden really believed in rule of law like he claims, he would do like Ellsberg and turn himself in and stand trial in the US.

              •  So both men (0+ / 0-)

                should turn themselves in ending up in the US and face the music like Bradley Manning?  

                That's not ringing a bell for me.

                Instead of treating of these three like unpatriotic criminals of the United States, they should all be given high level awards for furthering the cause of democracy worldwide

                •  Most people's complaint about Assange (0+ / 0-)

                  "not turning himself in" has to do with him refusing to hand himself over to Swedento stand trial for rape, rather than handing himself to the US for some hypothetical trial there.

                  Assange and Snowden's cases couldn't be more different anyway.  Snowden's case is a lot more like Manning.  They were sources, given access to confidential data and then leaking it.  Assange was a journalist - perhaps a "rogue journalist" or whatnot, but a journalist nonetheless - receiving information and then publishing it.

                  •  Both Assange and Snowden are right (0+ / 0-)

                    in fearing extradition to the United States, where they will be tortured and disappear

                    Yep, that's  the ticket

                    •  The concept is nonsense. (0+ / 0-)

                      Assange was in Sweden applying for a residence permit because Sweden has one of the most restrictive extradition treaties with the US in the developed world, the world's best judicial system in terms of protection of fundamental rights of the accused (as ranked by the peer-reviewed World Justice Project), and the world's best whistleblower protection laws (it's illegal to even look for the source of a leak, let alone prosecute someone for it).  It was Wikileaks itself who exposed the fact that Sweden derailed the US's extradition program through their airspace by disguising their special forces as airport workers and seizing a CIA jet, creating a major diplomatic incident.  Assange called Sweden his "shield" multiple times in 2010.  It was only when he faced prosecution for rape that he started pretending it's a giant US puppet.

                      The fact is that it's outright illegal in Sweden to extradite for intelligence crimes.  It's never happened.  The US couldn't even touch Edward Lee Howard, who unraveled the US's entire spy op in the late USSR.  Think the US didn't really want him?  And the Swedish foreign minister than Assange rails against today, Carl Bildt, was prime minister at the time.

                      And hey, where did Assange flee to next?  Why the UK!  So first Sweden was his number one place in the world to avoid a US extradition, and then it became the UK.  Indeed, it took the US 8 years and promises of not even supermax prison in order to get Abu Hamza, and everyone hated him!  8 years to get a guy who everyone agreed was trying to set up terrorist training camps in the US.  As for the greatest hacker of US military systems of all time, Gary McKinnon?  Couldn't touch him at all!  Think the US didn't really want him?  Couldn't get him because he has "aspergers" - as if Julian has-to-wear-specific-jackets-to-write-specific-kinds-of-letters Assange doesn't?

                      So the US was now the new great anti-extraditing haven, Assange's new choice.  (Until, of course, he lost his appeal about avoiding getting sent back to stand trial for rape.)  So we have his #1 and #2 choices in the world, and guess what?  Both would have to approve an extradition.  Both their governments and courts.  And the European Court of Human Rights would have to as well, a body that's generally accused of way overstepping its bounds in blocking extraditions and becoming a refuge for criminals.  All five entities are banned from extradition where torture or the death penalty or political prosecutions are possible, and two - the Swedish side - from intelligence crimes altogether.

                      But that really says a lot to me that all a guy you like has to do is spin a ridiculous conspiracy theory for you and you'll gladly endorse denying rape plaintiffs their day in court.  Because famous people never rape, oh no, and certainly not Julian "Women's Brains Can't Do Math" Assange, who's even been accused of sexual aggression by whistleblowers.

                      •  I didn't say I "liked" those guys in any way (0+ / 0-)

                        I am simply saying they he are correct in fearing extradition to the United States
                        Because
                        They will be tortured and disappeared and to anyone serious its pretty crystal clear

                      •  Feel free (0+ / 0-)

                        To fill the comment section with your zillions of Juliane Assange posts you have which I've already read in other diaries
                        I actually have a life to live and won't be participating
                        Thanks for your time
                        Have a good evening / day

              •  Ellsberg doesn't share your view. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dianna
                ELLSBERG: Yes, I do, actually. [chuckles] It’s interesting. I was a little puzzled at first as to — first of all, let me answer the question implicit in that. Why is he not in the country? And I think the current climate is such that if he were in the country, we would have no more chance to hear from him than you or I or anybody has had from Bradley Manning. He’d be in jail, he might be in the same cell in Quantico — at best — as Bradley Manning was for ten and a half months, in isolation. Or he might be in Guantanamo.

                FRIEDMAN: That was my sense as well. That he…

                ELLSBERG: He would not be out on bond as I was 40 years ago. I was able to speak very freely in this country out on bond during my trial. And to speak not so much about my case as to the war, and to put my message out about the nature of the war and why it should be ended.

                So he, Snowden now, from where he is, and he’s given more than one interview, has really been able to say how dangerous he believes this practice of total data gathering that’s going on on the American people, how dangerous that is. He’s able to say it in a way he couldn’t do in this country.

                Source
          •  Did you men (0+ / 0-)

            He would prefer to be sitting in Ecuador?  
            Does not compute

            •  I would think so...Ecuador is a hell of a lot (0+ / 0-)

              better place than HK as far as worrying about whether there will be a knock at the door in the middle of the night.

              To be free and just depends on us. Victor Hugo.

              by dizzydean on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:25:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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