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View Diary: Snowden: "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor for an American" (316 comments)

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  •  Saying that he thinks all spying is wrong (2+ / 0-)
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    Stentorian Tone, KenBee

    conflates all spying with spying that is hacking into civilian infrastructure like the US has been doing. We're talking about hospitals and other public stuff, not spying on foreign militaries. And we're also talking about our allies and people we aren't at war with at all.

    Saying that this means he's "against all spying" is wrong. Unless there is a quote I'm not aware of.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:02:12 PM PDT

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    •  Spying on foreign countries has never been limited (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, jdsnebraska

      to militaries.

      Second, allies spy on each other all the time.  For example, it's well known that the US and Israel spy on each other.

      Third, neither China nor Russia are our "allies".  They aren't "enemies", but they aren't allies either.

      Fourth, Snowden's telling China and Russia the ways and means we use to spy on them has absolutely zero to do with NSA spying on Americans and undermining American's civil liberties.  Those are totally separate issues.  There is nothing wrong with supporting leaking the NSA surveillance of American's communications while condemning the telling China and Russia how we spy on them.  Progressives should feel no obligation to support the Snowden's disclosing spying methods used on China and Russia.

      Fifth, China and Russia are spying on us too.  It's not a one way street.

      I've been in liberal circles for many years, from center-leftists to radical militants.  Yesterday was the first time that I ever heard it that spying on China and Russia is something to be condemned as a tenant of progressivism.

      •  So, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and no (1+ / 0-)
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        The issue here isn't spying per se, it's how they're doing it. Hacking into civilian infrastructure could have serious and possibly deadly effects. I was under the mistaken impression that he had revealed information about our allies being hacked as well as Russia and China. It is not the spying that I have an issue with, it's that they're doing shit that could potentially lead to war. Hacking civilian infrastructure is a serious problem.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:59:00 PM PDT

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    •  I smell fish, lots of fish...nt (0+ / 0-)

      This machine kills Fascists.

      by KenBee on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:24:48 PM PDT

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