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View Diary: Solving Rape? - A Very Short Statement For Those Who Just Don't Get It! (358 comments)

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  •  Gotcha. (43+ / 0-)

    Then I'll add, for the record, that this all applies to male rape, too. Sometimes I think men are even more vulnerable than women are, because talking about it seems to be an even stronger taboo.

    Glad to see  this diary, btw. The first one was mindcurdlingly bad, in several ways.

    At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

    by serendipityisabitch on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:48:40 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Wish I could rec your comment about (12+ / 0-)

      a dozen times.

      "I speak the truth, not as much as I would, but as much as I dare, and I dare a little the more, as I grow older." --Montaigne

      by DrLori on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 12:15:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  more vulerable to trauma (18+ / 2-)

      It's weird that when it's noted that men in the military are raped as often as women in the military, that it's not also emphasized that it's virtually always men who rape, it's men who rape women, other men and children of both sexes. And the statisic is still misleading, there are far more men in the military than there are women, so obviouslly more chances. If there were equal numbers, they'd be far more women raped.  

      But men who are raped are less culturally prepared to realize it wasn't personal, it was about availablity and circunstance.  Far fewer women rape-victims question what it means about them personally, and wonder if they were putting out passive victim (or homosexual) signals.  Like children men are more likely to assume some fault and that kind of thing drives them to feel shame and maintain silence.

      But, the more men who speak up, the more it's recognized as all too common, and not at all a specific response to a particular type of man.   And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.)  And most rapists assume that their victim really wanted it, so all this stuff about provocoative dress really does give them comfort.  

      "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

      by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 12:49:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is actually wrong (31+ / 0-)
        And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.)
        The overwhelming majority of rape and a vastly disproportionate amount of other violence is perpretrated by a tiny percentage of particularly violent men.

        That particular study finds that in the college population they studied, 4% of men were responsible for about 91% of rapes (about 7 each already, in a college-age population) and 28% of total violence. A smaller group they call "single-act rapists" (those who admitted to one rape), who comprised 2% of the population, committed the remaining 9% of rapes and 6% of total violence.

        Another more recent study by the Navy arrives at similar figures. Further research has discovered that the serial rapists (around 5% of men responsible for about 90% of all rape) plan their crimes and select their victims carefully.

        Rape is not a crime of opportunity. If it seems that way, it's because the rapist created the opportunity. If it were a crime of opportunity, we'd expect to see a completely different distribution.

        There is a survival advantage to believing that any man could be a rapist. The fact is, you can't tell the difference, because they'll only admit to it if you ask them on an anonymous confidential form and don't use the word 'rape'. Barring that, they look pretty much like any other guy, unless you've already seen their violent side.

        But in the interest of accuracy, knowing what we're dealing with, knowing how to fight on a societal scale, we should make an effort to understand what's actually going on. And it appears that most men are actually not potential rapists. Most men are also apparently substantially less violent in other ways than we'd thought.

        "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

        by kyril on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 01:57:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Most men are not rapist. (15+ / 0-)

          It is not something that every red blooded "real" man secretly wants to do.

        •  Therein lies the problem (12+ / 0-)
          The fact is, you can't tell the difference,
          Yes, you can't tell by looking who is the rapist. In fact, some of the "nicest" men are the worst, because it's a front they put up to lure in their victims. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

          That's why the rapists need to prosecuted and put away, because you can't tell by looking.

          Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

          by splashy on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:45:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Recommend a million times. (15+ / 0-)

          The idea that all men, especially young men, are potential rapists, if faced with temptation, is simply false. That is like saying that all adults are potential pedophiles easily overwhelmed by the vision of a naked child. We aren't. The "instinctive, primal rape" belief is not only false, it gives cover to sadistic predators who benefit from the attitude that raping people is an innate desire that all men share, and sadly, some just can't control. That is simply not true.

          Studies show that rapists choose their victims, and stick to particular patterns of stalking, entrapping and attacking their victims. This is no different in cases of so-called "date rape" (where the standard defense is "mixed messages" and "sudden temptation.") The "acquaintance rapist" is only different from 'stranger rapist' in that former gets off on deceiving and entrapping his victims, while the latter gets enjoys the terror he causes by a sudden, brutal assault.

          Those boys in Steubenville are not little toddlers who didn't understand that hitting sister with the toy car is very bad. They are, in fact, newbie rapists who had not perfected their crime. If they had not been caught they would have done it to another girl.

           

          "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

          by Reepicheep on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:28:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you're thinking of serial rapists (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Reepicheep

            many men have only raped once, often when in college or with a group of buddies.  I recall one story of a professor who volated a student, after a party when she'd passed out, and  he was also drunk, and she woke up unexpeedly and flipped, and it's possible that this was his first rape.  He thought he could get away with it.  

            "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

            by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:53:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I dare say he wasn't thinking at all (0+ / 0-)

              Show me the whisky stains on the floor
              Show me an old drunkard as he stumbles to the door
              And I'll see a young man with so many reasons why...
              ...and there, but for FORTUNE, go you - or I... - thanks, Phil

              by chmood on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:13:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Huh? What is a professor doing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Reepicheep

              "violating" a student at a party? Why was he at a drunken student party anyway?

              This was his first rape — for which he was caught!

              It's always the first time — until he is caught again.

              Most rapes are perpetrated by serial rapists and they all start with a "first time."

              I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

              by samddobermann on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 10:22:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  It is possible that it was just the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kyril, New Jersey Boy

              first rape he was punished for.

              He was a professor, and she was a student. He was conscious, she was passed out. He has all the power and she is helpless. Its the perfect set up. If she reports the crime afterwards, it is unlikely that anyone will believe her. Worse, she could be ostracized by her peers if she accuses super-cool party professor of raping her.  

               

              "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

              by Reepicheep on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 05:51:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I'd love to see a diary on this, just sayin. n/t (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril, Onomastic, Yasuragi

          "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

          by Reepicheep on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:33:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  one out of twenty men (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          207wickedgood

          is pretty fucking frequent. How many guys do you know? Which ones are the rapists?

          What laws can the senators make now? Once the barbarians are here, they'll do the legislating. C.P. Cavafy

          by anonymous volanakis on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:30:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you'd have to guess any of them (0+ / 1-)
            Recommended by:
            Hidden by:
            Rick Aucoin

            if they thought they could get away scott free.  What stops them is fear.  there would be some who would never rape, and they'd always protect a woman. In normal men few will risk getting caught, that's why it's opportunistic.  

            "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

            by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:55:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  actually (0+ / 0-)

          if you interview normal men, many will admit that they took advantage of some situation. If a woam is passed out, for example, or very drunk.  Violent rape is unusual, but so called date rape is common, it doens't have to be an actual date.  These are often unreported, and they're not serial rapists, they are opportunistic rapists. who kid themselves that is's consenual.   In war most men rape in groups, very few will not go along with it.  

          "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

          by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:50:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Rapists often groom their victims (0+ / 0-)

          Try and get one alone. Or make sure they are at functions where potential victims might be vulnerable.

        •  There is a difference. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          serendipityisabitch

          I knew the victim, many years after the fact, of one of those single-act rapes. She'd been going with the guy for a long time; they were making out; he didn't stop.

          Now, that doesn't make it okay.

          But it is a long way from that to stalking women so that they have to fear walking out at night.

          We have 2nd degree murder, when you get in a fight with someone and don't stop.

          Maybe we should have 2nd-degree rape.

          (I would be very surprised if this were ever punished in the present USA.)

          •  Interesting idea. I see no way to implement (0+ / 0-)

            it, or even to define it strictly enough for a court to want to touch it, but there are some potentially relevant parallels.

            The biggest difference, of course, is that death is an easily demonstrable end result, no matter what the factors are that lead up to it. To argue degrees of culpability in rape would require a much better definition of an end condition for the process - a can of worms that gets deeper and more tangled the more you look at it.

            At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

            by serendipityisabitch on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 04:29:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  To this idea, I say, "no." (0+ / 0-)

            "Jersey_Boy" was taken.

            by New Jersey Boy on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 06:18:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Outstanding Comment /nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril

          Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies have nothing to lose but their chains -Marx (-8.75,-8.36)

          by alain2112 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 08:58:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Say wtf? (6+ / 0-)
        And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.)
        WHAT?

        "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

        by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:26:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  wel, men who would never rape (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          New Jersey Boy

          have a very hard tiem believing that so many other guys would.  It's sweet, but unrealistic. Just think of war statistics, when the men will surely get away with it, that's when most rapes happen. And why they happen in the military, because there is a culture of getting away with it.  

          "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

          by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:57:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the military is a natural magnet for the violently (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rick Aucoin, samddobermann, Yasuragi

            disposed ("duty, honor, country" notwithstanding):  I imagine (not being one, myself) that the desire to rape and the desire to kill are often found in the same skin bag.  The military forces consider this an 'externality' - ie, not their problem - and they make little if any effort to RE-condition soldiers for life AS a civilian, AMONG civilians, at the end of their tours.

            This IMO is why combat vets are in such demand as "peace officers" once they're mustered out.  This is insane, and the trouble resulting should surprise no one.  Stop rape in the military?  The military creates rape, celebrates rape, and murder...but NOT IN EVERYONE.  Because not everyone is a rapist, opportunity be damned.  RAPISTS are rapists - and they must be stopped by ALL of us.

            As I've been told and heard others told, biology IS NOT destiny.  The idea that 'all men are rapists, they're just cowards' is as wrong - and wrong-headed - as the notion that 'all women want it, they just can't admit it'.

            Show me the whisky stains on the floor
            Show me an old drunkard as he stumbles to the door
            And I'll see a young man with so many reasons why...
            ...and there, but for FORTUNE, go you - or I... - thanks, Phil

            by chmood on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:26:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  its unbelivable that someone here (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Yasuragi

              ... would not only say such a dispicable thing, but then be rec'd for it.

              In years of being around this site, through flame wars uncountable, I've never seen such a bullshit commment that was rec'd by so many and hr'd by none.

              Unfuckingbelievable.

              "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

              by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:37:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  "skin bag?" I understand that you are refering (0+ / 0-)

              to someone who has committed rape, but this is still a human being ... not a skin bag.  And, I can't believe I'm actually calling for more respect for a rapist -- but IMO it serves no good to dehumanize people, no matter the situation.  

              Plutocracy (noun) Greek ploutokratia, from ploutos wealth; 1) government by the wealthy; 2) 21st c. U.S.A.; 3) 22nd c. The World

              by bkamr on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 04:41:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  to clarify: I was NOT talking about 'some BODY' (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bkamr

                I was describing behaviors, not persons;  and while I agree that any given human deserves some basic minimum of respect, understanding behaviors need not get defused and diluted by conflating persons with characteristics.

                I certainly feel NO compulsion whatever to "respect" the impulse to rape, to murder, to punish...which is a very different matter.

                Hope this helps.

                Show me the whisky stains on the floor
                Show me an old drunkard as he stumbles to the door
                And I'll see a young man with so many reasons why...
                ...and there, but for FORTUNE, go you - or I... - thanks, Phil

                by chmood on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 08:10:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  There is only one way I could agree with this (14+ / 0-)
        And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances
        The only way I could agree with the above statement is if you mean that no easily identifiable type of men are rapists.

        Because yeah, there are rapists and potential rapists in every possible demographic you could identify.  But there are also vast numbers of men who would never commit rape under any circumstances.

        If what you mean is that you can't tell the difference by simple observation and that any randomly selected man could be a rapist, then yeah.  If what you mean is that there is no difference and most or all men are rapists and potential rapists, then sorry, no, that's just flat-out false.

      •  I can't beleive you said this, and who rec'd it. (7+ / 0-)

            serendipityisabitch, twigg, Buckeye Nut Schell, eru, gustynpip, BlackSheep1, grollen, Kevskos

        Seriously?  You all stand behind this statement?  

        And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.)
        Really?  You are all going to rec that shit?  For fucking real?

        That's one of the most outrageous things I've EVER read on this fucking website, and that's saying something.

        And it got 8 recs so far and not one HR?

        Are you KIDDING me?

        "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

        by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:44:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think that's because you can't tell (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril, anna shane

          Which men are the rapists. Rapists tend to do quite well at blending in, at looking innocent. That's how they manage to keep doing it.

          That being said,  I did not recommend because of the poor wording.

          Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

          by splashy on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:48:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's not what it says. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril, Reepicheep, dejavu, Hamtree

            That might be what you thought it meant, but that is NOT what the commenter said.

            F'ing outrageous.

            "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

            by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:59:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  why so upset? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              splashy

              How do  you know it isn't true?  If one out of three women has been sexually assaulted, you think that's just a handful of bad apples?  All you can say is you wouldn't rape. If you're a guy, ask some of your buddies, but without telling them what you want to hear.  Many will admit to the one time, when there was an opportunity.  They'll later be sorry.  But the woman will have been raped.  

              If there is no opportunity, they won't manufacture one, but if there is?  

              if you find it f'ing outrageous, how do you think the woman feels.  

              or better, ask you female friends, who raped or tried to rape them and what were the circumstances.  

              "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

              by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:12:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, fuck you. (2+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                salamanderanagram, Hamtree
                Hidden by:
                serendipityisabitch

                Just, fuck you, you horrible wretched person.

                Go ahead, get anyone you can to come HR this comment, but you deserve it.

                Fuck you.

                You're wrong, and you're spreading vile fucking lies.

                Fuck you.

                "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

                by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:55:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't know whether anna is right or wrong (0+ / 0-)

                  and neither do you. Not enough solid data either way. In any case, your opinion of her opinion doesn't justify your comment. HR'd

                  At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                  by serendipityisabitch on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:20:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ill wear that hr proudly. (0+ / 0-)

                    There isn't enough evidence to disprove the statement that almost all men are rapists at heart and only don't rape from fear of being caught?

                    Yeah.  Fuck you too.

                    "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

                    by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:34:44 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  If you want to disprove that men are rapists (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      splashy

                      (and my belief, though not my knowledge, is that most men aren't under most circumstances), don't you think you might want to find words that don't undercut your point?

                      Aren't you saying "Although I'm ready to use these words against you this way, trust me that I won't follow them up with actions because I'm just not that kind of a guy. I'm just saying fuck you because it's such a great way to end an argument, not because I'd ever mean anything by it."?

                      Think about it.

                      At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                      by serendipityisabitch on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 02:14:33 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Right. (0+ / 0-)

                        Because every guy I've flipped the bird at or said 'fuck you' to was a threat of rape.

                        How pathetic, like accusing all men of being rapists at heart isn't enough, you want to play pedantic and dishonest games with generic insults?  

                        Done with speaking to you, for sure.

                        "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

                        by Rick Aucoin on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 04:04:55 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  Why so angry? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  serendipityisabitch

                  Seriously, why are you reacting so strongly?

                  Is there some personal issue involving this that you are thinking about?

                  They idea is to get people thinking about things, and how it is from the point of view of others.

                  Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

                  by splashy on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 11:46:52 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  According to the Numbers Posted Above by Kyril (0+ / 0-)

                4% of the men in the study were serial rapists with an average of 7 offenses.  Collectively this accounts for assaults against 28% of women, or close to the one in three that you cite.

                So that one man in twenty five is the problem.  Is that "just a handful of bad apples?"  Of course not, especially as that phrase is generally used to sweep the problem under the rug.  It does, however, caution against tarring all men as potential rapists.

                Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies have nothing to lose but their chains -Marx (-8.75,-8.36)

                by alain2112 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 11:03:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  I have to admit, I was reccing the paragraphs (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          anna shane

          above that, and didn't take that particular statement apart.

          And no, now that you've pointed it out I can't say that I'd rec it by itself. But, without going back and counting words, I'd say there was about half of the comment I agreed with, a third that I didn't particularly disagree with, and that piece. If I'd paid attention, I might have put a comment in about the characterization of men that was made, but I'd still have recced the comment.

          At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

          by serendipityisabitch on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:39:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really, classifying all men as rapists. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Reepicheep, jeff in nyc, Hamtree

            Okay, thanks for your... opinion of men.

            One wonders just exactly how vile the "second half" of a comment would have to be before it earns your HR or at least loses your support.

            I don't wonder enough to ask you to answer, though, please, I've heard enough of your opinions already, and the others who rec'd up that vile piece of shit.

            "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

            by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:44:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  My opinion about men? Mostly I like 'em a whole (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mamamorgaine

              lot.  On the other hand, I've never been subjected to any major amount of sexual pressure. Being 6'2" and around 190# at the age of 13 may have had something to do with that.

              That doesn't mean I don't know women who are, simply, afraid of men in general. The "all men are potentially rapists" theme is one of the backlash positions to "all women are sluts". If you are raised to be afraid of men, it's a hard position from which to find countering data.

              What I hear you saying is that any woman who holds that position or accepts that it seems valid to some other women, is beneath your contempt. I'm very sorry to hear that.

              At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

              by serendipityisabitch on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:04:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, the comment said... (6+ / 0-)

                ... flat out, no equivocation, that all men are potential rapists.

                And that's fucking bullshit.

                "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

                by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:59:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  women must view all men as potential rapists (0+ / 0-)

                  if they want to avoid being raped.  And under the right circumstances most men would rape.  For example, in war, that's statistically factual.  It's called a war phenomenon.  Maybe not a woman of their class.  

                  "oh no, not four more years of hope and change?" Karl Christian Rove

                  by anna shane on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:15:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yeah, fuck that. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Hamtree

                    And for fucking SHAME on you for even saying it, much less BELIEVING such a thing and spreading around such vile fucking lies.

                    For fucking shame.

                    "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

                    by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:54:07 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  so, anna you think that (0+ / 0-)

                    women can avoid being raped it they view all men as potential rapists?

                    Wow, you are wed to the idea that all men are potential rapists.

                    In war there is one big difference; rape is a tool to break down the opposing population. It is done for the purpose of humiliation and to destroy relationships in the resident opposing populations.

                    Many men who get caught up in the war time gang rapes suffer from their own actions after the war.

                    I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                    by samddobermann on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 10:37:46 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Why "in war there is a big difference?" (0+ / 0-)

                      Rape isn't a strategic "tool;" it's a war crime, and what in the world is this?

                      Many men who get caught up in the war time gang rapes suffer from their own actions after the war.
                      Translation: "Many men get caught up in the war time gang rapes"  None of these guys are personally responsible for their crimes - forces beyond them made them do it.

                      Translation: "[they] suffer from their own actions after the war" Poor guys.  They are victims too.  

                      No.  If a man chooses to rape another human being they have chosen to commit a vile, violent assault on an innocent, non-combatant, and they are a war criminal.  I don't care if they "feel bad;" the person they violated deserves justice and the rapist deserves jail.

                      Plutocracy (noun) Greek ploutokratia, from ploutos wealth; 1) government by the wealthy; 2) 21st c. U.S.A.; 3) 22nd c. The World

                      by bkamr on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 05:01:36 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  No. Absolutely not (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Richard Lyon, Indexer, Rick Aucoin

                    As others have pointed out, if that's how you want to proceed through life for your own safety, I won't argue with that. But this woman does not and will not view all men as potential rapists.

                    Your idea that rape is an issue of opportunity implies that A) rape is about sex and B) men are all savages who cannot control their sexual urges.

                    That is not true of most men that I know, and I know a LOT of men. I've been drunk and alone with a lot of men. They are my friends for a reason. They're not simple savages that can only think with their dicks.

                    I understand what you're trying to say here, but I think you're a bit out of your depth and should probably stop talking.

                    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

                    by BoiseBlue on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 05:34:21 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  You are correct. I have removed my tip (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rick Aucoin, madhaus, BoiseBlue

          I apologise. I habitually tip most comments in my own Diaries. In this instance I wasn't paying attention.

          Sorry.

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          Who is twigg?

          by twigg on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:07:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks, twigg. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            twigg

            Your name was the only one in that list that it really horrified me to see, I know, or hoped I knew, your postings and positions on the subject better than that.

            Damned upsetting that anyone would make such a comment and it get so many recs and no hr's.

             Asshole comments are a dime a dozen here, but for one like this to be rec'd by so many is just nauseating.

            "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

            by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:48:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  correction, your name and AoT's (0+ / 0-)

              I've rec'd a thousand comments by AoT over the years, I can't believe he uprated this thing.

              I'm going to just walk away from this now.  Its pushed me over the line and I'm just going to tell myself that one comment like this uprated by so many is really just an aberation and doesn't really reflect the Daily Kos community.

              Surely.

              "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

              by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:55:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I hope I'm misunderstanding... (10+ / 0-)

        ...and that this is not really one of the most ignorant and sexist comments about rape I've ever heard.

        And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.)
         

        What would Mothra do?

        by dov12348 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:23:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh come on (0+ / 0-)

          I don't agree with it either, but there are WAY more ignorant and sexist comments about rape than that made by Republicans every friggin' week.

          •  Maybe, by Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Hamtree

            But HERE and get REC'D?

            Flat out saying that the only reason almost all men don't rape is they don't think they can get away with it?

            That's fucking BULLSHIT and deserves to be HR'd into oblivion, not fucking UPrec'd by so many people.

            Goddamn fucking bullshit.

            "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

            by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 09:59:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Did you really mean to say this? (7+ / 0-)
        "And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.) "
      •  Just want to have this crap easy to find later. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hamtree

        Anna Shane wrote:

        It's weird that when it's noted that men in the military are raped as often as women in the military, that it's not also emphasized that it's virtually always men who rape, it's men who rape women, other men and children of both sexes. And the statisic is still misleading, there are far more men in the military than there are women, so obviouslly more chances. If there were equal numbers, they'd be far more women raped.  

        But men who are raped are less culturally prepared to realize it wasn't personal, it was about availablity and circunstance.  Far fewer women rape-victims question what it means about them personally, and wonder if they were putting out passive victim (or homosexual) signals.  Like children men are more likely to assume some fault and that kind of thing drives them to feel shame and maintain silence.

        But, the more men who speak up, the more it's recognized as all too common, and not at all a specific response to a particular type of man.   And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.) And most rapists assume that their victim really wanted it, so all this stuff about provocoative dress really does give them comfort.  

        Emphasis added.

        And who all uprated this vile trash?

        serendipityisabitch, twigg, Buckeye Nut Schell, eru, gustynpip, BlackSheep1, grollen, Kevskos, alice kleeman, AoT, historys mysteries, Hastur, mamamorgaine, ShoshannaD, petesmom, TrueBlueMajority, Cassandra Waites

        Every one of you should be ashamed of yourselves.  Just fucking ashamed.

        "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

        by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 10:02:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  AoT? (0+ / 0-)

          Come on, youre better than that.  How could you uprate such trash?  Some of the other names don't surprise me, but twig and AoT , y'all arebetter than this.

          "It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the GOP again." - The Democratic Party

          by Rick Aucoin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:50:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  ?!??! (3+ / 0-)
        And no particular type of man rapes either, could be anyone under the 'right' circumstances (when they are stronger and think they can get away with it.)
        Seriously?

        How is this different from "women are asking for it" as an explanation? It gets us nowhere.

        You've just given cover to rapists: "Hey, I'm a man. I can't help it—I had opportunity and I thought I could get away with it—it's the way I'm wired."

        I'm certain that's not what you meant to do.

        I'd venture to say there are many, many men who are quite physically strong, who have had the opportunity to "get away with it," and who have—often at great personal expense in time and money—helped a woman that has had—for example—a bit too much to drink to stand up, pull herself together, preserve a bit of her dignity, get into a cab, get upstairs into her apartment, and into bed—and who have locked the door behind us as we leave once she's "safe," precisely because we don't want her to—for example—get raped in the less-able-to-take-care-of-herself state she's in.

        It happens. A lot. I've done it more times than I care to remember. I find it to be embarrassing and not at all edifying, but it is what you do.

        Speaking as someone raised by a father who had several daughters, and by someone that has a young daughter myself, and would never (either one of us) in a million years consider violating someone—of any sex, I think what you've just said is not only fairly hateful but also distinctly counterproductive.

        -9.63, 0.00
        "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

        by nobody at all on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 11:03:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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