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View Diary: Solving Rape? - A Very Short Statement For Those Who Just Don't Get It! (358 comments)

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  •  Ah, but how do you effectively teach (1+ / 0-)
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    someone not to rape?

    We all know the fantastic success story of -- Just say "no"!

    Don't we?

    That is not teaching!

    This is about teaching our sons that they are not the center of the universe and that how they interact with other people must be based on respect for the individual. People are not property. Their bodies are not our toys.

    Truth be told, I do think men are inherently rapists. I think we're all born completely and insufferably selfish. Somewhere along the line we learn that our actions can help or harm other people. A few psychopaths never learn to care about the difference. And all too many people are raised in an environment where men are expected to control every situation, where empathy for the victim is a sign of weakness, where might makes right.

    We live in a society that condones rape, applauds rape-- because it's a display of power-- usually masculine power. And if there's anything that defines our culture it's the objectification and deprecation of femininity while we value and glorify that which we consider masculine.

    If the very conservative estimate that 1 in 6 women in the US have been molested or raped-- over two thirds of women in the US military have been sexually assaulted-- I don't see your "small percentage" in those numbers.

    If our sons are not raised in an environment where other people are treated as equals regardless of their gender then we have failed to teach them one of the most important lessons of all.

    When we've taught our children to understand that an incident like Mitt Romney and his gang pinning another person to the ground to cut their hair is not a harmless prank but a truly horrific assault that completely dehumanized the victim and that being able to perpetrate such an act of violence doesn't mean you're strong or funny but actually monstrous and contemptible.

    Yeah, so most people have heard that rape is wrong-- not enough people understand why it's wrong.

    Our society is breeding monsters.

    Saving the elusive werelynx though swag.

    by Marko the Werelynx on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 04:27:05 AM PDT

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    •  Well you're wrong! (0+ / 0-)

      No one ever taught me not to rape and I still didn't do it.

      In fact when I think back to my first sexual experiences I was resistant and it was peer pressure that pushed me toward it. The girl was much more of aggressor than I was. My maleness didn't make me some predator. Actually I have often been amazed when I reflect on the times a woman has tried throwing it at me and I was too dense to realize it.

       You are making an extraordinary claim that all men are Rapists, which is a horrible accusation and you provide next to nothing to back it up. Maybe you're confusing sex drive with rape. We may have a sex drive but we aren't rapists.

      •  Nope, nope, nope ... (1+ / 0-)
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        I didn't manage to communicate anything did I?

        I didn't actually write any of that rubbish. If any of that was implied well, that's a failure on my part I suppose. My point was supposed to be that human nature is basically selfish and that empathy is a quality that must be nurtured.

        And -- to create a nurturing environment in which empathy can grow is pretty difficult in a society that idolizes the brutal and predatory male image.

        If you and I and our children are not rapists it is not because of some altruistic, benevolent aspect of human nature. It's because we grew up in a nurturing environment that encouraged us to be sympathetic and unselfish.

        Humans are very primitive, violent, and selfish by nature but we can be taught to overcome that nature.

        I can lob some developmental psychology books at you if you'd prefer the words of experts. We can gab about Erikson's theories of infant trust versus mistrust if you like. Perhaps Howard Gardner instead? Goldberg is a good read too ... although, if you can get your hands on a copy of "I Never Knew I Had a Choice" by Gerald Corey I highly recommend it. It was a required text for one of my classes.

        Saving the elusive werelynx though swag.

        by Marko the Werelynx on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 07:30:44 AM PDT

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        •  No I get you. Re-phrase it however you like... (0+ / 0-)

          You are still saying all men are inherit rapists and I find it repulsive. Further  telling me to go read a book doesn't prove you're claim. You have miles to go before you come close to proving something so outlandish!

          •  I'm glad (1+ / 0-)
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            that you find it outlandish and repulsive. That's a healthy attitude. I wish I was more optimistic about human nature.

            I've known survivors of "The Killing Fields" and Auschwitz. A friend of mine was a welder. He welded stainless steel and wasn't given a respirator because he didn't support the Communist Party. He lived in constant pain. The USA actually embraced torture as a tactic. Millions vote for things like the death penalty. Look at what our greed is doing to this planet, take a peek at the swirling ocean of plastic debris that's slowly filling the Pacific Ocean-- tell me again that we're not rapists.

            Saving the elusive werelynx though swag.

            by Marko the Werelynx on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 09:44:47 AM PDT

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            •  What does my attitude have to with it? (0+ / 0-)

              You're claiming all men are inherit rapists. A claim you have done nothing to backup. The way you are kicking up dust it doesn't appear you have any plan to back up your claim.

               Honestly based on what you just posted to somehow convince anyone that all men are rapists I wonder if you even know what rape is.

              What are you going to tell me next, "you know a dog that killed cats so therefore all men are Rapists"?

              •  I never wrote that all men /are/ rapists (1+ / 0-)
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                I wrote that I think rape comes naturally (which is what "inherent" means, it's part of our nature) to men. We are, by nature, selfish creatures who think with our testicles. Our most basic instincts are those of self-gratification. Testosterone is a hormone that triggers violent behavior. And I suppose you're right in the sense that I've probably horribly oversimplified everything. There's a lot more to the whole nature versus nurture debate than my one-sided blitherings. I like the positive way Steven Pinker sees the future of mankind. He's got a lot of ideas that may change the way I think about the subject of rape. And I think this strange character could also teach me a thing or two:

                So, sorry if I've bothered you. I enjoy these long, failed attempts at dialogue because, if nothing else, I tend to learn a lot just digging around the internet reading up on subjects I haven't really studied for years and finding interesting stuff. Again, sorry if all my dust kicking only made you sneeze. Have a good night.

                Saving the elusive werelynx though swag.

                by Marko the Werelynx on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 03:47:57 PM PDT

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                •  Thanks for a very interesting video. (1+ / 0-)
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                  Marko the Werelynx

                  I've bookmarked the gentleman's site, and intend to browse there over the next couple of days.

                  At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                  by serendipityisabitch on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 05:06:39 PM PDT

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                  •  Be forewarned! (1+ / 0-)
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                    You may run into poetry and some pretty outrageous performance art pieces.

                    He has a wide variety of stuff out there in the web.

                    I noticed that he has a lot of vlogs that seem to deal with religion and one even bears the tag "Buber"-- Martin Buber happens to be one of my favorite philosophers. I expect I'll also be exploring more of his site(s) over the coming days.

                    Who knows what we'll find ...

                    Saving the elusive werelynx though swag.

                    by Marko the Werelynx on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 08:24:46 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Poetry? Oh, noes!! (1+ / 0-)
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                      Marko the Werelynx

                      Yeah, I noticed some of that, but (outrageous secret - do not tell ANYBODY) I've been known to swing that way myself, so both my forearms are in pretty good shape.

                      Have a glorious Wednesday!

                      At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                      by serendipityisabitch on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 02:21:28 AM PDT

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                •  I think I quoted you right. (0+ / 0-)

                  You are claiming all men are inherent Rapists. That's what I posted, although spelled wrong.

                   I mostly agree with the man in this video. People put in horrific situation like war or prison do horrific things. I don't agree with him where he claims "these aren't broken people" because all his examples are of people who are in unusually bad situations. Not only are these people witnessing death and mayhem daily, they are in a constant state of fear. Plus they have an institutional influence. He really picks bad examples to show these people are unbroken.

                  Note his example of Abu Garaib and remember the photo of a female soldier walking a naked man around on a dog leash, Does that mean all women are Rapist too? I don't buy it and I don't think much has been done to prove this claim.

                   I really think what he does here is take examples where men are forced into situations of extreme violence where survival requires being ready to fight at any time then applies how they act to your average Joe in normal society and claims see we are all like that.

                   Maybe he is touching on the problems of rape we are seeing in our military and it's similar to the examples you provided with Pol Pot and Auschwitz. It's not the men who inherently do these things, it's Wars and Prisons, and corrupt Governments.    

                  •  "Therein lies the rub ... " (0+ / 0-)

                    I don't have any quibbles with your quoting. I'm all flustered and bothered by the next step you've taken which is interpret my words to mean something else.

                    That word "inherent" (regardless of spelling, which I happen to be horrible at and uncritical of in others) is vital to the point I've repeatedly failed to make which is that I think we men folk are all born with this potential to become rapists and that I believe (and this belief is shared by many prominent psychologists) that unless our environment (family, culture) promotes and encourages nonviolence and mutual respect over brutality and greed-- well, bad things are bound to happen. You can raise a child to expect instant gratification for all their whims, you can encourage their violent tendencies by giving in to their raging tantrums. There are a lot of ways people can get screwed up. Perhaps we do have a resilient spark of innate morality-- an inborn empathy maybe. So you could say that I think we all are, deep down, rapists and murderers and thieves but I also believe that most of us have a pretty good wall built up that separates us from acting on our baser instincts.

                    I don't believe anyone was stating a case for women being rapists. Where and why did you dig up that photo and drag it into this discussion? Enter straw man. I think the man in the video was speaking about the potential to become an "instrument of evil" in all of us when he brought up Abu Ghraib. He sees these perpetrators of horrific crimes as ordinary people put into extraordinary situations and seems to me to be saying that any of us might have done as they did unless we work to prevent such situations from happening and to train ourselves to recognize and avoid those situations. Are we not those soldiers? Are they not average Joes?

                    It's not the men who inherently do these things, it's Wars and Prisons, and corrupt Governments.    
                    You don't see any irony in that do you?

                    Who declares those wars, who builds and fills those prisons? Who holds the power in those corrupt governments?

                    With a vast majority--


                    Saving the elusive werelynx though swag.

                    by Marko the Werelynx on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:26:19 AM PDT

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                    •  I think "potential" is a new qualifier. (1+ / 0-)
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                      Marko the Werelynx

                      One that's not hard to meet. The mere fact that people rape proves we have the potential to rape, but it doesn't make us inherent rapists.

                       The reason I brought up the woman at Abu Garaib is because the person in the video you linked used Abu Garaib as an example that men are rapists. If you follow his logic that Abu Garaib shows all men are rapists then a female soldier with a naked man on the end of a dog collar would make all women rapists as well. It's not something I believe, it's something I raised to show his assertion isn't logical.

                       I think you could raise a well adjusted non violent, non rapist and put him or her in a violent atmosphere like war or prison and it would turn them into violent animals capable of all sorts of brutality, but it's not their natural state it's what the conditions make them. Put a dog on a chain, or cage an animal and poke it with sticks all day and I think you know what you'll get. That picture of the woman in Abu Garaib shows females aren't immune

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