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View Diary: [UPDATE - MORE PHOTOS] 200,000 Rise Up in Brazil - "The People Have Awakened" (333 comments)

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  •  You mean those countries (0+ / 0-)

    That have larger degrees of functional socialism (putting the People first) built into their governments.

    "Political ends as sad remains will die." - YES 'And You and I' ; -8.88, -9.54

    by US Blues on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 07:34:57 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Plenty of countries have the same systems (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jiffypop, erush1345, Quicklund

      and are not doing nearly as well.

      Don't worry about telling me what I mean; check yourself first.

      I was gonna listen to that, but then, um, I just carried on living my life. - Aldous Snow

      by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 07:49:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  +1 Nations who respect their citizens (0+ / 0-)

      don't seem to be having these problems.

      Nations who are careful not to allow multinational corporations to control their government and corrupt their politicians don't have these problems.

      When you live in a country where your government works for you, its a much different world.

      "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

      by Betty Pinson on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 08:51:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Brazil has been fighting to climb (9+ / 0-)

        tooth and nail out of what was called "3rd world nation status".  

        Since most people here don't seem to know much about Brazil and Brazilian politics - may I point out that Brazilians suffered under a right wing totalitarian military dictatorship from 1964 to 1985.

        As my many friends in Brazil have pointed out (those who are my age and older) the bulk of the young people you see in the streets protesting were born after the fall of what many have called fascism in Brazil.

        Yes, they are pushing for even faster change, but if you liken this to some sort of "protest the oligarchy" movement you are dead wrong.  

        Brazil historically was the largest slave state in the New World.  It has the largest black population - second only to Nigeria.

        Are there problems - yes.  Economic inequality persists, much of it tied to skin color, though not the way we dub it here, since most "white" Brazilians would be black in the U.S. Treatment of Brazil's indigenous population is still a major cause for world concern (not that ours is much better)

        The rise - in a short period of time of a democratic socialist Labor Party into power, spearheaded by Lula (Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva) a man who didn't complete grade school, came from poverty, and who is not "white" in a U.S. sense (most Brazilians  think of him as "pardo" mixed ancestry)
        is an amazing accomplishment.

        Brazil currently has become energy self-sufficient - and all cars are flex fuel.  

        It is developing as a major left of center player in this hemisphere.

        Brazil has National Health Care, and the US tried to take it to court when they distributed generic AIDS drugs for free - violating BigPharma's stranglehold on the cocktails.

        When in Brazil, I can ride the bus for free - because of my age.  I can (even as a visitor) use free health services.

        Are conditions bad in many favelas? Yes.  
        Are they in any way comparable to conditions there in very recent history - no.

        Students who go to public university (not private) go free. And get a stipend.

        Most of the demonstrations recently have been peaceful, and the police over-reaction has been condemned , but I'd like to point out that so has the trashing of stores and cars and spaces by a small segment of the protesters.

        Having watched friends killed in Chile, under a similar regime to Brazil's dictatorship, not so very long ago,  please keep in mind that ordinary Brazilians haven't forgotten the heavy arm of the military, including kidnapping, torture, imprisonment, forced disappearance, and murder.

        See National Truth

        So, contrary to what seems to be expressed in this diary - what you are seeing is not Occupy part 2 , Brazilian style.

        Nor is it a revolution. It is a protest. A large and vocal one.

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 10:47:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You don't understand. Protesters anywhere (4+ / 0-)

          =Occupy. There is even a guy in a Guy Fawkes mask pictured above.


        •  I disagree with your entire analysis. You don't (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          get 240,000 people across major cities to rise up in this type of protest based on your analysis.

          Again, I'm using sourced material, including the BBC report, and the video by the young man explaining the reasons why they are rising up.

          It is about corruption, and subjugation, and the spending of exorbitant amounts of money on sports stadiums while the society is being neglected.

          •  I agree with Denise Oliver Velez (3+ / 0-)

            and I find your reasoning specious.

            You don't get 240,000 people across major cities to rise up in this type of protest based on your analysis.
            Brazil: population 196 million (2011)

            Wisconsin: population 5.7  million (2012)

            Proportionally speaking, 240,000 Brazilians is roughly the same fraction as 7,000 Wisconsinites.

            In Wisconsin during 2011, many protests occurred.

            From Wiki:

            The protests and demonstrations began following Walker's introduction of Assembly Bill 11[39][40] to the Wisconsin State Assembly on February 15, 2011. This bill became known as the "Budget Repair Bill" to proponents, and the "Collective Bargaining, or Union Busting Bill" to opponents.

            On February 15, tens of thousands of protesters demonstrated in and around the Capitol building in Madison[43][44] regarding the proposed legislation's limitations on collective bargaining for and against Walker's bill.[45] "Kill the Bill" remained one of the main slogans of the protesters.


            In one single day the proportional equivalent of 750,000 or more Brazilians marched in protest due to a governmental action.

            This isn't a revolution. This is what democracy looks like.

            •  I agree with her too, and when I find myself (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Quicklund, Denise Oliver Velez

              agreeing with Quicklund, it always worries me.


            •  People can clearly see who's argument is (0+ / 0-)

              specious here.  Amazing you took the time to write that absurdity, with numbers and all.  Funny, actually.  Moving on...

              •  None as blind (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Denise Oliver Velez, emelyn

                as those who turn their nose up at math, the one pure science.

                But more to the point, the only thing you offered up in your specious rationale is basically, 240,000 is a lotta Brazillians so this must be a revolution.

                Well, Brazilian (faux) revolutions don't got nothing over Wisconsin protests. By which I mean, it is good to see our Brazilian brothers and sisters out protesting and urge the  gov't to continue growing the naiscent Brazilian democracy and to rein in further police abuses. Solidarity.

                •  Specious vs. fallacious... Let's see: (0+ / 0-)

                  First, in any country, whether the population is 1 billion or 50 million, or 200 million, a sustained uprising/protest where upwards of 250,000 people take to the streets, it is considered something of great significance and of great concerned by the powers that be.

                  So your absurd and illogical attempt at undermining the importance of this uprising in Brazil is not only specious, but fallacious.

                  Number two, the underlying reason people are taking to the streets is because of the level of corruption and subjugation people are enduring at the hands of an increasingly disconnected moneyed ruling class.

                  Number three, those same conditions are afflicting many other Western countries, including the U.S.

                  You see, no matter how specious, fallacious, or intellectually dishonest your line of argument may be, you will never be able to negate these truisms I listed here.

                  And anybody with half a brain can see that.  But again, I enjoy taking on people like you.

                  •  See? You can't stay on topic. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    I said nothing to undermine the Brazilian protests. In fact I praised them for being a manifestation of a healthy democracy taking root in yet another nation. What you are calling a revolution I am calling part of the democratic process.

                    Unless you are of the opinion "democracy" is in itself inherently slanderous, you have nothing to stand on making this charge.

        •  Thank you (3+ / 0-)

          Interesting and informative and refreshingly free of hyperbole and presumption.

        •  Very good analysis. n/t (3+ / 0-)

          Article 196. Health care is a right of all persons and an obligation of the State, guaranteed through social and economic policies that provide...universal and equitable access to programs and services....

          by SLKRR on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 12:23:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  it's very similar to South Africa (3+ / 0-)

          Since South Africa emerged from apartheid, it has made tremendous gains for its people.  Huge numbers of housing were built and made available, at cheap prices, to people who had until then been living in tin shantytowns.  Massive jobs programs pulled many people out of poverty. Wealth was redistributed at a massive rate, downwards.

          And yet much remains.  There are still slums and shantytowns in every city. Crime rates are enormously high, as desperate people do what they must to stay alive. Unemployment and underemployment are still massive problems. Corruption permeates the government and the police (ask me sometime about how I bribed a South African cop).

          Because of that, there are protests and demonstrations in Pretoria every weekend. Cops move in, heads get cracked.

          But that does not mean the protesters want an end to the government. It means they want their government to WORK.

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