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View Diary: Protests in Turkey - Standing Silent "Protesters use excessive intelligence" (70 comments)

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  •  Yes, it is because they are muslim, because (0+ / 0-)

    the hold the religious leaders have, the countries cannot move forward and women are chattle

    •  Whoa #3. (1+ / 0-)
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      InAntalya

      If we were not in conversation, I would HR you for your anti-Muslim trash.

      •  But it's true! What muslim country is part (0+ / 0-)

        of the First World, none.

        the religious leaders hold them back, the people might be diverse, but the leaders of Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Afghanistanm Somalia, Quatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia....some of the "stans"which one is not held back by Islamist leaders?

        •  You have a highly simplistic view here (1+ / 0-)
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          InAntalya

          that reeks of anti-Muslim bias and ignores the long-term consequences of colonialism and Cold War international relations in which it was and, to a certain extent, still is, convenient for the US and Russia (and now the US) to prop up "strongmen" who used their power to suppress dissent in the guise of stability.  This is not to deny the conservative elements of certain Muslim strains, just like there are conservative elements of certain Christian or Jewish strains, but to blame it on being "Muslim," the way you are here, is simply incorrect, never mind highly offensive.

          •  I understand all that but now, to move forward (0+ / 0-)

            they can't. Islamic religious governments will not allow women to be fully part of society and the people are held down by religion, it is a fact and I don't care for any religion, so it is not that I bash muslims, I bash all religious who try to govern

            •  You need to be really careful in your language. (1+ / 0-)
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              InAntalya

              There are many strains of Islam and there are many political persuasions as well.  Conservative theocracies are simply one strain.  So no, it is not a "fact," to quote you, that "the people are held down by religion."  People are held down by particular interpretations of a religion, or by particular beliefs within a strain of a religion--in this case, Islam.  To act, as you are here, as if those particularities represent the religion as a whole or religious leaders as a whole is way off-base. In fact, many of the protesters in the Arab Spring are themselves Muslim.

              And frankly, I don't care about your attitudes toward religion.  I'm not particularly religious myself.  But there are many people who are, some of whom are conservative, some of whom are moderate and some of whom are progressive.  So don't lump them all together.  And, given the anti-Muslim bias in this country right now, I would argue that it's especially important not to do that for Muslims.

              •  Islam as practiced in the world is not good (0+ / 0-)

                for women and if you can refute that good on you

                and when women are not part of society you can bet the country is not successful and violent and that is not just religion but culture but if women are not visible the country is not a great place to live

                where religion is part of government, women have trouble, see Ireland as well...

    •  This is bullshit. (1+ / 0-)
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      Aunt Martha

      You are saying that Muslims cannot move forward because they are Muslims.

      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:22:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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