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View Diary: Breaking: NSA Wiretapped Obama (228 comments)

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  •  Considering the amount (9+ / 0-)

    of "surveillance" that the FBI conducted on civil rights leaders in the 1960s, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the NSA was spying on what the powers-that-be considered a "dangerous radical."

    As Tim Wise pointed out earlier, the faux outrage over the Snowden leaks is coming about only because "law-abiding citizens" (A.K.A. "white people") are discovering that the government might not be limiting its surveillance to the "criminals."

    28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 04:39:53 PM PDT

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    •  If I say that's the stupidest thing (6+ / 0-)

      I've heard all day, will that make me a racist? Or just an idiot with faux outrage? Or both?

      What is wrong with me because I am not happy abput the revelations...you tell me.

      •  If you're outraged about this (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greengemini, JoanMar, Sparhawk

        then you were either (a) outraged when the NSA was conducting warrantless surveillance against suspected terrorists, or (b) yes, you're an idiot with faux outrage.

        Some people are consistently against the surveillance state.  That's fine.  The majority are fine with it as long as they've convinced themselves that the surveillance state is limiting themselves to the "bad guys," only becoming outraged when they find out that, yes, the surveillance state might be checking in on their phone calls, too.  Those are the people who allow the surveillance state to happen in the first place.

        Just like the people who elect prosecutors and judges to lock up the "bad guys" throw hissy fits when those prosecutors and judges want to lock up their kid...

        28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

        by TDDVandy on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 06:05:44 PM PDT

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        •  This is (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          congenitalefty, Nada Lemming

          Unbelievably offensive.   Maybe some of us are opposed because we know what comes of it from our own families.  Here is a clue.  Oppression is not when someone says something idiotic on radio.  Oppression is when you are hauled off to the gulag for saying the wrong thing.  Those of us with experience with this understand that difference

          Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

          by Mindful Nature on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 07:19:58 PM PDT

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          •  How can you be offended (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mindful Nature, greengemini

            when you just said the same thing about using this technology for oppression?

            TDD does point out that there is a certain amount of white privilege in place that assumes it will never be us (yes, I'm white) and I happen to agree with him. History supports his contention. Over and over again. Contemporaneously.  Look at stop and frisk policies in New York and Arizona...just for starters. You think for one moment those police departments wouldn't jump on the chance to share in the eavesdropping, along with their share of drones?

            I find your "offense" completely off the mark and bordering on offensive itself.

        •  oops (0+ / 0-)

          I misread your comment.  I'm in category a, as are most.  I misread that part.

          Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

          by Mindful Nature on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 07:57:05 PM PDT

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      •  No it doesn't make you a racist (4+ / 0-)

        It might mean you are now awakened to what some groups of people have lived with all their lives - to be profiled, targeted for harrassment and false arrest, and to be totally without standing in the eyes of the police/courts.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 06:22:20 PM PDT

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        •  How many members (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          radical simplicity, Nada Lemming

          Of your family have been disappeared to gulags without trial for having thee wrong political beliefs?  

          Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

          by Mindful Nature on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 07:20:53 PM PDT

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          •  A few hundred, at least (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JoanMar
            How many members of your family have been disappeared to gulags without trial for having thee wrong political beliefs?  
            Disappeared or killed for "wrong" political beliefs?
            A few hundred, at least

            But that was long before the Gulag.

            How many in the Gulag? I don't know, since records linking to the Russian side of the family were completely lost.

            I'm sure you're aware that large numbers of political killings and disappearances have happened in South America, North  America, Africa, Asia, and Australia. Not only in Europe, right?

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 08:37:15 PM PDT

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            •  Really (0+ / 0-)

              Big immediate family.  

              Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

              by Mindful Nature on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 10:05:44 PM PDT

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              •  What's your point? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JoanMar, Grizzard

                That Gulag imprisonment was somehow superior to other political disappearances?

                I answered the question you asked. But apparently you had a different question in mind than the one you asked. It might just be me but your line of inquiry here is coming across as passive/aggressive BS.

                If you have a story you want to tell, tell it. If you have an ax to grind, grind it on someone else's head.

                Good day.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 10:15:40 PM PDT

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                •  Already told it elsewhere (0+ / 0-)

                  I will tell you I resent the repeated statements that people who oppose the NSA and related programs are stupid naifs (or now, racists of one form or another or hypocritically privileged to boot).  Believe me, when your uncles and grandfather and father have been the victims of such activities by totalitarian regimes, you are being neither because as they say, you understand this shit is real.  This is not subject to some strained false equivalency to some other period of history or events that bears only a passing similarity only drawn for rhetorical purposes.  Frankly, I'm getting to the point where the next person to level such charges of privilege or cluelessness is going to be getting called to the mat for their bullshit by me for being stupid, insensitive, and frankly pretty damned privileged themselves.

                  Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

                  by Mindful Nature on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 10:21:14 PM PDT

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                •  to be clear (0+ / 0-)

                  the damage caused by totalitarian regimes is different, and has a different relationship here to whatever else you sound like you are referring to

                  Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

                  by Mindful Nature on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 10:22:28 PM PDT

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    •  "Faux outrage"? (0+ / 0-)

      Why would the outrage be faked?

      If white folks are ignorant of or callous to the abuses that brown folks have long suffered at the hands of the police state, and if white folks are now surprised to find themselves under the unfeeling and secret eye of the police state…

      Why then does it make sense that their outrage at this development is faked? Either they thought such treatment was only for non-whites or they were blissfully unaware of the atrocities suffered by non-whites, but in either case it would be bad news for them to join such a club.

      Am I missing something?

      "I am confident that we're going to be able to leave the Gulf Coast in better shape than it was before." President Barack Obama

      by quagmiremonkey on Thu Jun 20, 2013 at 07:56:09 PM PDT

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      •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sparhawk

        The outrage is "faux" in one meaningful way.

        That is, now that people who look like me (nice looking 27-year old white male) have found that the surveillance state actually applies to them, they (we) express outrage over the overreach and constitutional impropriety. We act as if we are against spying and the erosion of rights because, you know, principle.

        But that's not really what many of those folks are against. What they're mad about is that THEY are being spied on. Because it stands to reason that if they truly cared about the principles, they would have spoken up about the expanding surveillance state before. Unless we assume this is the first they're learning of it, which seems unlikely. At best, it makes those individuals incredibly dense and unaware of what happens to people outside of their little sphere.

        I suppose that if those a few of those people do exist (people who just learned of the surveillance state once it smacked THEM in the face), then perhaps it's fair to grant credit to their outrage, since they can't be expected to be outraged over something they have no knowledge of. I just dispute that most of these people lived in such blissful unawareness. Because you'd have to be blind and deaf not to know about Stop and Frisk or other common violations of personal privacy.

        "We forward in this generation, triumphantly."

        by Grizzard on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 06:11:30 AM PDT

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        •  The word "faux" does not mean "selfish" (0+ / 0-)

          or "unprincipled". It means "artificial". On the other hand, outrage can be both selfish and unprincipled.

          I'm guessing you carelessly mashed the "faux outrage" meme that's been in use for years onto this fresh "white privilege makes Obama's dragnet surveillance no big deal" meme.

          "I am confident that we're going to be able to leave the Gulf Coast in better shape than it was before." President Barack Obama

          by quagmiremonkey on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 09:16:26 AM PDT

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          •  Sorry, the careless mashing was TDDVandy's (0+ / 0-)

            originally, though you seem equally confused.

            "I am confident that we're going to be able to leave the Gulf Coast in better shape than it was before." President Barack Obama

            by quagmiremonkey on Fri Jun 21, 2013 at 09:18:30 AM PDT

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