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  •  On education, ag policy, financial oversight, (9+ / 0-)

    4th amendment, transparency, deficit phobia, New Deal dismantlement, extraction regulation, climate change mitigation...need I go on?

    Yes, he did finally come around on gay marriage.  A definite highlight.  And man can he talk.

    He's a fucking breeze-tester.  His moral core?  There's no there there.

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

    by nailbender on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 12:43:08 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Sounds like every Republican since 2008 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dov12348, NedSparks

      Man, can they talk.

    •  You mean the same education where the President (9+ / 0-)

      has expanded Pell Grant so many people have an opportunity to attend college, who might not have without Pell Grant? And what did he do there? Oh yes, he also cut out the middle men, meaning the banks.

      Now Obama did pass a Wall Street Reform Bill. The same Wall Street Reform Bill that Barney Frank (he must be a DINO) helped put together, the same bill that Bernie Sanders and pretty much every Democrat (They must be DINO's too) voted for.

      Climate change, Obama has done more in the area of the environment than any other President in history. If he's a DINO, what happened to the other real Democratic Presidents again? Why didn't they do as much as Obama, because you see, among other accomplishments in this area, this President raised fuel efficiency standards in cars by half.... Oh...that's certainly a DINO move.

      Oh on the New Deal issue, who passed a universal healthcare plan that has eluded Presidents for close to 100 years again? Oh, yeah, the "real" Democrats.

      And in case you want to claim that the ACA is a Republican plan, maybe you can first tell me which Republican would have passed such a plan, which restricts insurance companies to spend 80% of their revenues on their patient’s health care, or stopped companies from denying healthcare due to a pre-existing condition. Which Republicans would have passed that again?

      I guess Obama is a definite DINO, alright.

      •  I'm sorry, Ned, but Richard Nixon's administration (4+ / 0-)

        did more for the environment than any other.
           

        •  I'm not a member of the beat up Obama school (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean, blueoasis

          But, sad to say, this is true.  Most of today's legal basis of environmental protection came into law under Nixon.

          I'm sure Nixon had is cynical and triangulating reasons, but no Democratic president has matched him yet.  

        •  Sorry dallasdunlap, but while Richard Nixon (6+ / 0-)

          created the EPA, President Obama has made historic achievements in raising fuel efficiency standards in cars, Nixon hadn't achieved this.

          The President has also created the Wilderness Preservation Act, which was pretty ample in setting aside 2 million acres in nine states as protected wilderness, and, as I have stated below, created the Ocean Health Index, the Index charts new territory, and for the first time ever sets up a world standard for gauging ocean health.  This is worldwide, not even as local as the creation of the EPA, which I give Nixon credit for.

          Some additional things this "DINO" President has done for the environment:

          More than doubled federal spending for research on clean fuels.

          $60 billion in spending and tax incentives for renewable and clean energy.

          Invested in all types of alternative energy.

          Increased funding for the Environmental Protection Agency.

          Invested $2 billion in solar power

          Established consumer tax credit for plug-in hybrid cars.

          Still, if you want to believe the argument that Nixon has done more for the environment than President Obama, then is that argument (since no one has mentioned another Democrat) admitting that Obama has done more for the environment than all "real" Democrats? This is like being hoisted in one's own rhetorical petard....

          Funny stuff....

          •  The creation of the EPA was a landmark moment (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jeff Simpson

            and was far bigger than what the president did. That said, it was created by a congress with a big Democratic majority along with giant protests on the environment issue, as well as the fact tat rivers were regularly catching fire. So a bit of a different situation.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 05:13:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  you are wrong (0+ / 0-)

          richard nixon vetoed a lot of environmental bills.

          nixon was pragmatic at times and he was pushing into it.

          without the pressure he might not have done it.

          nixon paved the way for right wing extremism.

      •  OK (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Victor Ward, Nattiq, nailbender, blueoasis

        1.  Expanded Pell grants and now wants to link student loans to market rates, which when rates return from historic lows to normal levels will be much higher than government subsidized rates. And what he did by eliminating the loan middle man was a savings to government, but not to students/parents.

        2.  Wall Street reform?  You've got to be kidding.  It still runs the show and does what it wants.  Few teeth in the bill, loads of loopholes and where are those prosecutions?

        3.  Obama's been ok on climate change and the XL pipeline will be a big test for him.  And as dallasdunlap implies with his comment about Nixon below, Obama has done nothing equivalent to setting up the EPA.

        4.  Obamacare has yet to show it's value.  We'll see how many people get covered and whether premium growth slows over the long-term and whether those with pre-existing conditions, while being able to get insurance, can actually afford the premiums they will be charged.  And let's not forget that the cake went to private insurers who now have a much larger market to rip off.

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

        by accumbens on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 06:07:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well where do I begin (4+ / 0-)

          First of all, President Nixon might have created the EPA, but President Obama's raising of fuel efficiency standards represents These fuel standards represent the single most important step we’ve ever taken to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

          Secondly, The Wilderness Preservation Act  sets aside more than 2 million acres in nine states as protected wilderness — from California's Sierra Nevada mountains to the Jefferson National Forest in Virginia. The biggest this nation has seen in a generation.

          Third, the President has created the Ocean Health Index, the Index charts new territory, and for the first time ever sets up a world standard for gauging ocean health.  

          Obama Care

          Obama care has not yet kicked in and already it is paying great benefits in terms of allowing more people to gain access to healthcare that were never able to as well as young people gaining access to health through their parents insurance plan than were able to before. The plan is also providing community clinic care to millions of individuals. Obama Care has also strengthened Medicare.

          Again, when it comes to Obama being a DINO, I have to ask the question: When will the real Democrats standup? This is a ridiculous argument, that despite my attempt, shouldn't even be addressed seriously.

          •  The ocean health index is a direct response to the (0+ / 0-)

            regulatory failure that was the BP mega-disaster.  Bragging about that is bragging that you've not closed the barn door but put up a security camera, now that the horses are out.  Given the O admin's record on following through, an Ocean Health Index is about as promising as is his newfound resolve to have a national discussion about warantless surveillance.  Show me the money, iow.

            Yes, obamacare is better than nothing.   How grateful we are for that.  All the non-nothing we've achieved the last 5 years!!!

            "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

            by nailbender on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 09:41:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What is your argument, exactly? Because the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ParkRanger, sreeizzle2012

              President created a vehicle to protect the environment following an event like the BP oil spill, your contention is  IT DOESN'T COUNT!

              Do you know how many bills or remedies were created to solve a problem after a tragedy occured?

              Are you kidding me? This just says you are really trying to fit the facts of the President's record into your very small argument that the President is a "DINO" or a failure or whatever it is you are trying to promote, but your argument is very weak if all you can say to the many accomplishments of this President is that his accomplishments "weren't good enough!"

              Not good enough based on what? Which other President has done as much? Crickets, crickets....

              I do like this last argument though; it is quite exemplary of your type of rhetoric....

              After indicating that the President has formulated a worldwide index to keep the world's oceans safe, your response was???

              Oh, that doesn't count because he only did it after the BP oil spill!!!

              Have you passed any of these laws yourself? Has any candidate or politician that approve of pass anything close??? I won’t hold my breath for your answer…

              Until you can show me, who has done more than President Barack Obama on these issues, this discussion is useless.

              Simply priceless....

              •  BP was a regulatory failure for Obama. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueoasis

                On all counts, as were the coal mining disasters on his watch.  Sorry to use an analogy, which seems to be beyond your ability to grok.

                "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

                by nailbender on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 10:53:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  So at best, based on the four points I addressed, (0+ / 0-)

            he's batting something less than 500.  When the two misses have to do with the backbone of the economy and the burden of student loans, batting 500 is not that impressive, especially considering what you and then I didn't address - for example, entitlements, which Obama seems determined to cut.  He's really more like an old fashioned moderate Republican than a Democrat.

            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

            by accumbens on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 11:50:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Note that I was responding to a comment that (0+ / 0-)

        labeled him "left of center."  You changed it Democrat in Name Only.  Nice try,

        He's right of center.   Most of the Democratic elected officials operate in that zone since the Turd Way took over back when it was called the DLC.  In effect, the Democratic leadership is now the policy equivalent of the Rockefeller Republicans (if that relic of governance had survived to this day, which it certainly hasn't).  I take that back: they are to the right of the Brahmin GOP of the 60s.  

        Universal health care?  Yes, he passed the GOP bill that was offered back in the early '90s, your attempt to preempt the point notwithstanding.  Point made, thanks. The fact that the GOP, since the advent of the Turd Way, has ratcheted to the right so far that it is now effectively an organ of the John Birch Society only proves the further point that when "Liberalism" slides to the right as Clinton (and Carter before him, and Obama after him) guided the Party, the GOP will gladly accommodate the shift.  Point made, thanks.

        Wall Street reform?  Where's the New Deal Glass-Steagall reinstatement that is necessary to change banks back to what they used to be under the New Deal regime as opposed the to casinos for rich people that they currently operate as?  Where are the prosecutions of the multi-layered frauds that brought the economy down?  Why has the wealth gap actually increased in the last 5 years if Obama is such a financial progressive?

        Climate change?  We're extracting, fracking, deep-drilling, strip mining more fossil fuels today than we ever have.  And we rank 16th out of the 20 largest economies in efficiency of our fuel usage, behind China for crissake (but ahead of Russia, yippee).  And we've had more extractive catastrophes than we've ever had as well (Massey, Macondo, etc).  The Gulf is an ecological nightmare and the shale zones will soon become a national-scale Love Canal.

        Best enviro president ever?  Who created the EPA and who has allowed it to languish after the thrashing it took under Buscheney?  Answer: Nixon and Obama. Yes, the CAFE standard increase was great.  And about 20 years overdue.  But that's like a designated hitter bragging about a home run he hit during a 10-2 loss the night before.  We should be leading the world toward sustainability, not accelerating the other directions with an idiotic "all fuels all the time" approach that gives the green light to not just the 400ppm we've breached under Obama, but also to the insane pollution that the fracking industry is foisting on us in their frenzy to get more carbon into the atmosphere.

        Education?  Ask a teacher.  Ask teacherken, in fact.  My only response is two words: Arne Duncan.  Actually, that's not my only response, my other one is that my son, who is in his 3rd year of college next year, is looking at a killer increase in his college loan rate.  Thanks Barack!

        In notice you don't even touch his National Security State credentials.  Good thinking.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 09:27:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Tell me which Republican would have passed the ACA (0+ / 0-)

          That's all....

          I've said this above, you all claim that this is a Republican bill then tell me which Republican would have passed such a plan, which restricts insurance companies to spend 80% of their revenues on their patient’s health care, or stopped companies from denying healthcare due to a pre-existing condition.

          If I say something is a Republican plan I would be able to list tens of Republicans who would have passed that plan, but you are unable to tell me one Republican...even ONE! Who would have passed this plan with the provisions I listed.... You cannot tell me...or you would have....

          •  Bob Dole. (0+ / 0-)

            Back when there were still Dems worthy of the name.

            See his recent dissing of the current gop, if you want to get a perspective of how the entire political spectrum has shifted to the right since the Centrists have taken  over the party.

            the point, which you're avoiding, is that the current GOP is an animal made possible by the drastic shift to the right that the DLC/Turd Way movement (hey, that has a little cache', no?) has enabled.  It's not like wasn't explicit aready on this point.

            "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

            by nailbender on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 10:57:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  (smiling) you've gone back in time for Bob Dole, (0+ / 0-)

              but he does not agree with this "Republican" plan, as it is called. He is only in favor of the bill because of the bill's importance and once in a lifetime nature. Here is a quote from Dole:

              This is one of the most important measures members of Congress will vote on in their lifetimes, If we don’t do it this year I don’t know when we’re gonna do it.
              http://www.therightperspective.org/...

              There was a time when Republicans would pass legislation, not because such legislation was a Republican legislation, but because they believed that, even though they may disagree with the bill, it was worth passing because of its historic nature.

              There were Republicans who helped to pass Medicare and Medicaid, it doesn't mean they were in favor of these legislations as Republicans, but they felt it historic and important, and perhaps urgent.

              Bob Dole is expressing this sentiment here:

              I don’t agree with everything Obama is presenting, but we’ve got to do something, I want this to pass.
              But I'll give you much credit for going back in the past and finding at least one Republican who would have been bipartisan enough to pass a historic bill.

              Actually, even up until Clinton, Republicans have been willing to cross the aisle for a historic bill such as the Affordable Care Act, but once Obama became President, bye-bye crossing the aisle on anything.

              But back to our discussion, unfortunately, Dole goes against your point that the bill is a "Republican Bill". His argument is primarily one of passing the bill out of historic reasons.

              •  He championed it in opposition to Hillarycare. (0+ / 0-)

                Obamacare resembles the GOP counter to the Clintons back in '93 almost as much as Romneycare (which was modeled after it) does.

                I'll cut and paste my own quote now:

                the point, which you're avoiding, is that the current GOP is an animal made possible by the drastic shift to the right that the DLC/Turd Way movement (hey, that has a little cache', no?) has enabled.  It's not like (I) wasn't explicit aready on this point.
                I'll continue the discussion further if you address that, my main point.

                "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

                by nailbender on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 05:36:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'll disagree with that point on this basis. The (0+ / 0-)

                  current GOP drastically shifted to the Right just when President Obama took office. The amount of fillibusters we have seen under this President has never been seen to such a degree during any other Democratic administration.

                  We have to remember that this is a Party that had its members meet on the day the President was being sworn in to plot to do anything to obstruct him, before the President passed one single bill. So I would say your point here:

                  the current GOP is an animal made possible by the drastic shift to the right that the DLC/Turd Way movement (hey, that has a little cache', no?) has enabled.
                  Is not exactly born out by the fact, in that, they were blocking the guy even before he made any type of shift whatsoever.

                  I have a strong belief that when Barack Obama leaves office the GOP will cease being as obstructionist as they currently are.

      •  To clarify, on student loans (0+ / 0-)

        he improved things and with pell grants he temporarily increased funding through the stimulus, although even that increase was not enough to keep up with tuition rises and increased number of students. But it was about all he could do. He's no DINO for sure, but caling him left of center on "most issues" is just wrong.

        And no, he did n't pass a universal health care bill. He passed a health insurance reform bill. There is a difference. Which isn't to say that the ACA was bad, there were some parts that were definitely good, but the full effects aren't clear.

        Economically he hasn't done much since the stimulus.

        And "all of the above" as an environment plan is a bunch of bullshit ad only good compared to the past, not actualy good. I really hope that the diarist is right about this. If so then Obama will have a legacy worth remembering in the envirnmental arena.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 05:08:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i STRONGLY disagree with you (0+ / 0-)

          Obama is left of center on most issues because

          remember the 400 bills pelosi passed?

          that was left of center 2008 agenda. many of those bills passed. far from enough no sugarcoating. but they were left of center.

          (lilly ledbetter, obamacare, student aid reform etc).

          Obamacare paves the way for medicare for all

          Vermont is going medicare USING affordable care act

          80/20 rule to reduce health insurance costs

          California is enforcing the law extremely well. It is likely to go medicare for all.

          there is strong competition in california.  GEHA option is powerful enough to do what the public option did. look what they provided for pre existing conditions uninsured people. affordable health care
          medicaid expansion to people in deep poverty
          affordable tax credits
          tax credits for small business and poor/middle class

          regulations to slow down costs of health care

          preventive care

          strengthening medicare and medicaid

          •  What pelosi passed doesn't change (0+ / 0-)

            Obama's position. And everything else you wrote was about one thing, not "most issues". Compare where most of the country stands on these things and where Obama stands and it becomes pretty clear he's mostly center or right of center.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 04:25:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  obama has stood up (0+ / 0-)

        progressive values many times and people did not support him.

        Also, obamacare paves the way for medicare for all. vermont is already taking advantage of the waiver. it is going well. peter shumlin and wendell potter have praised the affordable care act as leading the way to a progressive health care system of medicare for all.

        obama has done a lot for those in poverty (progressive priority and martin luther king priority)

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