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View Diary: Why Obama is about to DEEP SIX Keystone XL (81 comments)

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  •  The east- and west-bound pipelines (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, meralda

    may be planned, but that doesn't mean they will be built.  The all-Canada western route goes through First Nations (Indian) land, and the tribe and local non-tribal people are strongly opposed to letting it go through.  The eastern route goes through Maine, so the US would have to agree to it.  The oil company can repurpose existing pipelines, but then they risk oil spills like some that have happened in the last few years that plenty of people already hate them for.  

    Recent and anticipated advances in electric cars may depress the demand for oil enough to make the tar sands uneconomical.  Remember, that tar is basicaly the same as the asphalt in roads.  It takes a lot of work to make gasoline or diesel fuel out of it.  

    Renewable energy brings national global security.     

    by Calamity Jean on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 01:03:07 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Even getting the eastern route to Montreal (0+ / 0-)

      would accomplish most of what they need. Montreal has oil refineries and is a deep water seaport.

      "Recent and anticipated advances in electric cars may depress the demand for oil enough to make the tar sands uneconomical."

      They aren't there yet, and I don't see much evidence that all-electric vehicles are anywhere near being able to take a large share of the market. I could easily see hybrids taking over the personal automobile market if we could just get the CAFE up high enough. But that merely reduces the need for oil, it doesn't eliminate it.

      And even once plug in electric vehicles become more common, the electricity has to be be generated somehow. You want more nuclear plants? You want to flood every valley with hydroelectric dams? Coal kills, and while I'm nowhere near as hostile to fracking gas as most Kossacks, it certainly isn't completely benign. Other forms of electric power generation aren't going to make a major contribution any time soon.

      •  I want more wind farms! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean
        You want more nuclear plants? You want to flood every valley with hydroelectric dams? Coal kills, and while I'm nowhere near as hostile to fracking gas as most Kossacks, it certainly isn't completely benign.

        Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

        by JeffW on Sun Jun 23, 2013 at 07:58:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And solar panels on every sunny roof! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JeffW

          Making solar panels and wind turbines, and installing them on an emergency basis, would cause unemployment to drop like a stone.  Win - win.  

          It's already cheaper to build wind farms than to build new coal-burning generators for the same amount of delivered power.  It's faster, too.  A coal power plant takes about five years to build, a wind farm takes three.  And a wind farm can start delivering power from the first turbine completed even while later turbines are under construction.  

          The cost of solar panels is still falling.  Already solar electricity is cheaper than nuclear power in cloudy England.  In the US, which generally has much better sunshine than England, solar power will soon (five years?) be cheaper than coal or gas.  There's a big change coming, if we keep pushing for the next few years to make it happen.

          Renewable energy brings national global security.     

          by Calamity Jean on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 12:09:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Wind power is not benign (0+ / 0-)

          and isn't going to replace fossil fuels.

      •  I see my disputants still don't get it (0+ / 0-)

        All the wind and solar electric generation still won't solve the transportation fuels problem. There is no alternative to liquid fuels for private automobiles in the forseeable future.

        How about mandating that all passenger cars be hybrids within ten years?  That technology is already here, and practical.

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