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View Diary: Is Race a Problem for the Left? (338 comments)

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  •  Immigration will create jobs. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darwinian Detrius, smoothnmellow

    The real driver of the economy for most of us is the economic activity generated by the needs of lower-income people (ie, most of us).  More people means more grocery stores, more food, more gas, more car repairs, more clothing, etc, etc.

    Our economic issues are not a matter of 'how many people' we have in the country, but in how most of the wealth generated by workers is sucked away to feed the true leeches on society - people like the Koch Brothers, and the mega-millionaries around the country who only got wealthy by systematically underpaying workers, to take that money to hand over to shareholders who do no work, but are given money for doing nothing more than holding onto stock certificates.

    •  One is curious as to how shareholders paid for (0+ / 0-)

      their stock certificates without doing work.

      •  One is? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I don't know who one is, but back when I actually owned stock, I did nothing, and raked in dividends.  Later, when I'd gone long enough, I sold the stock (for an added profit).  I added nothing to the company, produced nothing, and yet money that otherwise could have gone to the people actually working for the company went into my pocket.

        •  Actually you DID do work. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Catte Nappe

          You risked your money and you spent time analyzing which investment to make.

          The scandal is that you only paid 15% tax on your work while the guys who worked for the company had to pay 35%.

          But the capital gains tax loophole is a subject for a whole 'nother Diary...

          •  I still disagree. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Catte Nappe

            I 'risked my money' in the same way that you 'risk your money' when you go to a casino.  But even if I'd lost it all, it did nothing for the company, it didn't produce anything.  It helped keep a stockbroker employed, I guess.  Second, analyzing investments?  Not really.  I bought stocks in companies I simply thought were doing things that would become more popular.

            The only shareholders who do anything for the company are those who buy stock in IPOs or secondary offerings.  The company gets their money.  The people who trade it thereafter are merely parasites on the system.

    •  Do you have any evidence... (0+ / 0-)

      ...that immigration will help low-to-middle wage workers?

      I have not seen any studies projecting/proving this.

      The best studies all say immigration is good for "GDP" and "The Economy" and "Productivity".  But jobs and wages? Nothing but crickets.

      •  Low end workers spend every dime they have just (0+ / 0-)

        to stay alive - they put 100% of what they make into economic activity about as fast as they make it.  They keep money in motion in the local economy, which goes to bring in the goods and services they need, and results in extra employment to keep up with the extra demand.

        People on the upper end of things are the ones who only spend some tiny fraction of what they make, and end up hoarding wealth, thus keeping it out of circulation.

        So if you want an economy to hum along, and create jobs, do you want a thousand people who will instantly put back everything they earn into that economy, or 1 person who spends 1/10000th of what he earns?

        Businesses don't hire people if they don't have to - the only way they add on employees is to meet additional demand.  So you need to create as much demand as possible.  And the same amount of money handed over to poor folks generates far more demand than it does if given to rich folks.  Even studies from RW thinktanks have to begrudgingly admit that.

        •  That argument explains... (0+ / 0-)

          ...why giving benefits and tax cuts to the poor stimulates the economy.

          It does not mean that we need more poor people!  That is what immigration does -- it brings in more unemployed people!

          How does that help us? It only helps those who are hiring -- they can now cut their wages.

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