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View Diary: Is Race a Problem for the Left? (338 comments)

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  •  Well, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Victor Ward, mallyroyal

    I'm not here to argue, but what I'm saying I've gotten from PoC posters onsite over the years.  So there would seem to continue to be people even among the PoC community who use the words differently.

    •  Your definition does not allow for failed racists. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mconvente, skotrussell

      And any defnition that doesn't allow for failure, must be questioned.

      One more red flag, in my view...

      I can create a thought experiment based on two hypothetical countries. Each country is identical, save for racial makeup.  One is dominated by whites, the other by blacks.

      The Aryan Nation is active in the first, and, I believe that you would admit that Aryan Nation members are racists.

      By your defnition, we could pluck those Aryan Nation members from the first country, drop them into the second and they would no longer be racists.

      That sort of thing may be fine for quantum mechanics, but politics, philosopy, and plain old people seem like poor vessels for such spookiness.

      Pluck a racist out of Mississippi and drop him in Nairobi, he's still a racist.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 08:41:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually it's because it doesn't use the word (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Victor Ward

        in the same way.

        He's 'still a racist' in your definition because your definition is that his racial bigotry is what makes him a racist, so as long as he remains a racial bigot, he remains a racist - because that's how you defined racist.  A racial bigot in Mississippi will be a racial bigot in Nairobi.  So if you declare that racist merely means racial bigot, then yes.

        If you say X = Y, then X will always equal Y.  

        But if you define racism as more than just that racial bigotry, but the power to use that racial bigotry to one's advantage, then you see that by taking that guy out of Mississippi and dumping him in Nairobi, he can no longer afford to indulge in his bigoted actions without facing a far different set of reactions than he was able to count upon before.  The legal and social norms that allowed him to indulge in such actions are suddenly absent in Nairobi.

        •  Aryan Nation folks are indeed racists, believing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skotrussell

          in racial superiority of whites and advocating policies to that end.

          If actively pursuing a nation divided by race does not make you racist, then the term has no meaning.

          It's like saying you can't be an environmentalist in a country where the oil industry has so much power.

          Which is, of course, untrue.
          You can rail against the system.
          You can fight it.
          You can seek out friends.
          You can seek wins when your are a difference maker.

          Ditto for racists out of power.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:08:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Again, white privilege... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Denise Oliver Velez
        Pluck a racist out of Mississippi and drop him in Nairobi, he's still a racist.
        True. He's still a racist. And he's still going to have the benefits of white privilege.

        I can pass for white, at least back home. And although I've been served last in one government office, and although I've received funny looks for walking around in certain neighbourhoods, no matter where I go, I'm respectable. I can walk around in ratty old clothes and still be welcomed into a business place, where a black man much better dressed than me might still attract a suspicious glance.

        •  In Kenya? (0+ / 0-)

          Help me out, then.
          Where will this not be the case?

          Lagos?
          Johannesburg?
          Kampala?

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 10:43:41 AM PDT

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          •  Mars? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jeff Simpson
            Where will this not be the case?
            Somewhere that escaped European/American colonialism and imperialism, and which also avoided the cultural influence of American mass culture.

            A white face in Lagos is probably an oil company executive, in Kampala a businessman or a tourist. Even if you don't like white people, you're going to recognise them as either powerful people, or representatives of powerful countries. "White people's countries" are rich and powerful, so even if you dislike them, you're not going to think of them as inferior...you're probably going to think of your own people as inferior.

            When a billionaire despises you, you suffer; when you despise a billionaire, they shrug. It's worse to be a waiter at a party of billionaires than to be the billionaire at a gathering of spat-upon waiters...the billionaire goes home, secure in his identity, knowing that what those people think of him can't hurt him. The waiter goes back to his room feeling diminished, feeling like there's something wrong with him. And wakes up the next day, feeling the same disdain, every day of his life.

            Racism isn't about prejudice, it's about power.

            •  Great. You have made racism irrelevant. (0+ / 0-)

              That is, you have made it irrelevant for anybody but white people.

              Only white people can be racist and, it seems, white people are automatically racist.

              With such views, it is hard to take the idea of racism seriously.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 11:45:40 AM PDT

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    •  oh, no doubt. I've heard your argument a lot in (0+ / 0-)

      my life, usually from black people.  

      This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

      by mallyroyal on Wed Jul 03, 2013 at 09:58:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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